Nazarene Space

a job that doesn't make you work on shabbat

shalom,

 

i'm having an extreme amount of difficulties finding a job that doesn't make you work on shabbat..

 

i live in Belgium (europe) and the situation is like this;

 

* all office or high placed jobs (which mostly don't make people work on saturday or late fridays) are out of my reach because i don't have a college/university diploma to get started

* if you don't have a diploma the jobs that don't requiere you to work on shabbat either want you to have A) experience, B) a driver's license or C) being able to work with a reach truck

guess what.. i don't have any of the above!!

* all that's left is working in stores, bars or plants... and guess what!!! all stores and pubs demand you work on saturday's (and mostly also fridaynights) and nowadays working in a "day regime" (which made sure you finished very early on friday's and never worked saturday's) in a plant has become almost extinct and all that's left now is working "2,3,5- or night-shift regimes" and all of those regimes make sure you work on Shabbat since you are demanded to work on friday night and sometimes even whole weekends...

 

so in a nutshell... i have no way whatsoever to get a job that doesn't requiere me to work on Shabbat.. i could go back to school but my parents are not giving in so school is also NOT an option.. and my parents are starting to get really really upset and think i'm being lazy and stubborn.. a practicing Nazarene family is willing to take me in so i could live with them, but will i not have the same problem with them ?? will i then become a pest to them, i don't want to do that....

 

 

i just don't know anymore.... PLEASE HELP ME :-(

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Then you, by your own logic, are morally obligated to stone someone for breaking the Sabbath. Go ahead and try it- see how long it takes for you to get carted off.

Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
we are to do it in the diaspora.  if its not being done, that's a sin.  thus, our government is in sin for not administrering Torah as the criteria.  the Torah tells us to stone those that deserve the death penalty if and only if the government rightly condemns them.  every torah commandment has with it an implicit clause.  you are to love your wife (if you have a wife).  you are to honor your father and mother (when you have a father and mother).  if you have a father and mother, you must honor them.  if you have a life, you are to not work on the sabbath.
Jesse, you are wrong.  We are morally obligated to stone people ONLY when the government we are under says "stone time".  that' swhat torah says.  Torah and the rest of Scriptures say explicitly for the judges/rules of the land to first make the ruling, then the people are to obey the ruling.

So where are the judges who can enact a right ruling to stone someone? I encourage them to step forward, right into the police cars, where they will be taken before a pagan judge, who will condemn them as religious fanatics.

 

Andrew you're missing my point, which is that life functions differently in the diaspora than it does under a Torah-abiding community. The mere fact that we can't establish a sanhedrin to stone those who break Sabbath is proof of this. That is why we practice excommunication rather than stoning.


Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:

Jesse, you are wrong.  We are morally obligated to stone people ONLY when the government we are under says "stone time".  that' swhat torah says.  Torah and the rest of Scriptures say explicitly for the judges/rules of the land to first make the ruling, then the people are to obey the ruling.
the fact that there are no judges does not mean we don't have to keep the commandments.  the fact is that our nation is in sin because we are not keeping the commandments.  collective commandments are different from individual commandments.  it does nto take a governmetn to keep shabbat.  it does take a government for the death penalty.  it does not taek a government for not eating unclean food.  it does not take a government to not bow down to false idols.  it does take a government to go to war.

...I think you are further proving my point.

 

We don't have a government, i,e., we are in the diaspora.

 

The entire Torah was given to a nation. Every aspect of it. Our entire nation, however, is set up to perpetually violate the Torah every day. To some degree, we just have to do what it takes to stay alive, until the kingdom and the priesthood is truly restored.

 

Hence, on the basis that the Apostles picked grains to feed themselves on Sabbath, and the priests "worked" on Sabbath doing their temple duties (but were pardoned from the work thereof), I have no issue with "working" on Sabbath if one must do it to support themselves and their family. It's sure as heck a lot better than living off government cheese.


Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:

the fact that there are no judges does not mean we don't have to keep the commandments.  the fact is that our nation is in sin because we are not keeping the commandments.  collective commandments are different from individual commandments.  it does nto take a governmetn to keep shabbat.  it does take a government for the death penalty.  it does not taek a government for not eating unclean food.  it does not take a government to not bow down to false idols.  it does take a government to go to war.

huh?

 

Torah says as follows:

1.It is the government's responsibility to condemn people to death.

2.It is the people's responsibility to kill those that the government justly condemns to death.

3.We are to obey this commandment, even in exile.

 

The entire Torah is given to all people in all lands, not just Israel.  

 

The Apostles picked grains to feed themselves on the Sabbath because it was NEVER a sin to do that.  Priests were not pardoned for their melakha because they did not do melakha.

i am living proof that miracles happen in getting a job that respects your beliefs.  take my example as encouragement: I applied to my first and only job i've ever applied to, lettin gthem know up front about my days off i needed.  and they hired me.  an amazing testament to Yahuwah's provision.  don't lose hope.

 

Regarding the Apostles picking grain, the case should be clear and obvious that their actions- "work"- were excused because it was for the purpose of doing good.

 

Matthew 12:3-5, "But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?"


Do not forget, Brother Andrew, that God is very much the God of the Greater Good.

 

Regarding the giving of the Torah- it was specific to Israel, not all nations. 2nd Baruch 77:2-3, "Hear, ye children of Israel, behold how many ye are who remain of the twelve tribes of Israel. For to you and to your fathers the Lord gave a law more excellent than to all peoples."


Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:

huh?

 

Torah says as follows:

1.It is the government's responsibility to condemn people to death.

2.It is the people's responsibility to kill those that the government justly condemns to death.

3.We are to obey this commandment, even in exile.

 

The entire Torah is given to all people in all lands, not just Israel.  

 

The Apostles picked grains to feed themselves on the Sabbath because it was NEVER a sin to do that.  Priests were not pardoned for their melakha because they did not do melakha.

Ani:
1.It is the government's responsibility to condemn people to death.(YES)

2.It is the people's responsibility to kill those that the government justly condemns to death. (YES)

3.We are to obey this commandment, even in exile. (NO, PROVE IT; ACTUALLY, I KNOW YOU CANNOT PROVE IT, PLEASE DON'T EMBARRASS YOURSELF TRYING)

 

 

Serkan, I would honestly suggest you just tell your target employer up-front, very early in the interview that you cannot work on saturdays (and potentially fridays, or parts thereof) for religious reasons.

They will usually have some restraint against disqualifying someone immediately for that, and will (often) try to work out a compromise if you're co-operative.

Of course, it's much easier if you're following the Rabbinical calendar; if you say you're following another version of the calendar, or a calendar that requires much personal calculation and is not widely practiced, your employer might think you're basically making holidays up.

Start a non profit organization or find a way to live off the fat of the land like John the baptist.  I have a friend that works as a tutor that has a non profit status.  that means he can adjust his pay rate for kids and parents with little money.  And he accepts donations.  Also staffing companies are flexible,  just say what days you can work.

Please listen to the Internet radio show this Shabbat evening (8 p.m. EST Saturday) This subject will be discussed.

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