Nazarene Space

Can someone share with me what these verses are saying? I do believe Enoch was transfigured. Is it clear that he did not die? Are we to look for him to return?
(Hebrews 9:27)

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Heb. 11:39,40...And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, recieved not the promise: G-d having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Enoch is included in those who recieved "Not the Promise" in verse 5, what is that promise but the hope of eternal life (Titus 1:2; 3:7). Also in verse 5, there are two translations of the term "translated...Gk. metatithemi=convey to another place, transfer, carried over...this same word is found in Acts 7:16 where Jacob died & his body was transported to Sychem and buried, and again in Deu. 43:6 in regards to Moses. Gen. 5:22-24 states "ALL" the days means death (365 yrs) when applied to the entire chapter. Heb. 11:6 is about faith...He pleased G-d and walked with Him...Amos 3:3/walked=agreed was not "didn't die".
Col 1:13 says Christians are "Already Translated" into the kingdom...we are not immortal--we still die. We are removed from darkness into the light of the "Kingdom of G-d".
John 3:13 "No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven..."
Heb. 11:13 states, "These ALL died in faith not having recieved the promises...", speaking of the same "All" as in verse 39.
1 Cor. 15:50 ..."Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the kingdomof G-d..."
Heb. 9:27...And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
Heb. 11:5 ...that he "should not see"...conditional tense word (future) not past tense as in..."did not see" death.
Rev. 20:6...speaks about the first resurrection/literal/death verses the second resurrection/spiritual/death.
John 8:51; 11:26 both speak about never seeing death if a person believes in the Son of G-d.

Enoch had faith and was translated (removal-transfered was on the condition of faith-figurative). Col. 1:10...To abide in the kingdom we must walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing. This is what Enoch did when he was delivered from the power of darkness and sin in which he had been living for 65 yrs. He was translated/removed from the ways of the world and lived 300 yrs. according to G-d's ways so that he might inherit eternal life at Christ's return and not suffer from the second death. We are as Enoch, separated from the world by faith though being in it.
Paula, thank you for sharing. You have me interested in further research of the context of Heb11:39 and Titus 1:2, &3:7. I'm thinking vs.39 closely relates to vs. 19/ek nekron/(Mark9:9-10/ Luke 16:30,31/ John20:9/ Acts 10:41// Rom.6:13/10:7/11:15/ 1Cor.15:12-20/ Heb.11:9) this does seem like a subject that has numerous levels to be revealed unto those God chooses. No two people are at the same stage in their walk with him all the time and no two people agree on all things but humbled truth seekers can discuss and study and digest the Word together. Either way I just posted this here to get a seed or two to consider as I go forward in my personal relationship with the Father on the subject.
Peace
The Book of Jasher also records the taking of of Enoch into Heaven.

Also see Sira 44:16; 49:14 and Wisdom of Solomon 4:10-13.
Thanks for areas of consideration James.
I was attempting to convey a different prespective on a traditional and fixed way of thinking using scripture as the foundation of my thesis. If the scripture states that "flesh and blood" cannot enter heaven then that only leaves one conclusion that "whoever" enter heaven will not be flesh and blood (alive in an earthly form). Again the Lord stated "no man" has entered heaven, therefore that statement is conclusive on the subject than "anyone" that has been named to have had a heavenly ascension prior to Christ's is an incorrect interpretation/translation. Also I pointed out that biblical text referrs to a person's existance as "all the days" in order to state that person's period of lifetime. This phrase was used to describe "him" in Gen, a total of 365 yrs.
Yeshua's preeminence is shown as an example in Col 1:18 along wih many other scriptures.
If He was the first in all things then "no-one else" preceded Him especially into heaven.
There are different definitions for the word "heaven" other than the place G-d dwells, such as the firmenant above our heads where the birds fly. If the scripture contradicts whatever else is promoted among belivers even oral records being passed down from generations, is this not a reason to inquire of the original belief? Are we not told to study the scriptures "line upon line here a little and there"?
Even King David is stated as still being in his grave (Act.2:29, 34) dead and buried and had not ascended. Heb. 11:32, 34 states that "all" which includes David the one who found favor with G-d and was after his heart (Act. 7:46; 13:22). These are just another way of seeing the facts and applying them in a different concept.
The context of your comment "I have an in-depth understand on SOME aspects of the Holy Merkavah Throne (which covers a lot; so there's a lot I still don't know), but I'll only expound on it with someone on a similar level of understanding," is being presumptuous in determining someone's spiritual/heavenly level of understanding compared to their literal/earthly content. The idea of "believers" present tense being translated into the kingdom is a spiritual viewpoint ,but we are "not" immortal....we still "die" as part of the earthly existence.
Enoch was flesh and blood "if" he did not die which contradits the word, also Yeshua was the first-born therefore no one entered heaven before Him ....are here again scripture is false
The taking of Enoch occurred before the Flood, and is a type of the Pre Trib Rapture of the Church.
Enoch and Eliyahu died as mortal men. Their death happened to follow after a final vision or miraculous event, but they are dead nonetheless.

The 2 Witnesses ARE the 144,000, being the House of Israel and the House of Yahudah, not Enoch or Moses or Eliyahu or Melchitzedek.

If anyone is annoyed at the blunt and matter-of-factly way of stating this, then you're on my side - isnt it annoying reading "facts" like this, hint hint to some of you?

John 3:13 is present tense, as in "Not one CAN ascend into Heaven...." I believe it's clear that Enoch didn't die. neither did Elijah. I also believe they will return and die as the two witnesses, a literal fulfillment of the prophecy in Revelation. Remember also Mat. 17, in which Moses and Elijah appeared with Yashua ( although Moses died, he was seen talking with Yahshua). But Enoch and Elijah are the only 2 people who never died.

Also I'm not sure what you mean by "Yeshua was the first-born therefore no one entered heaven before Him". Yahshua was already in Heaven before He came to Earth as a mortal. He only returned to Heaven. Since Moses and Elijah were with Yahshua on the mount, where are they now? Did Yahshua just raise them up for a 5 minute chat, and then put them back to sleep? I doubt that very much.

 

John notes in 3:13: "AND no man hath ascended into heaven, but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man, he who is in heaven".

 

ויתהלךH1980 we ith halek   חנוךH2585 Chaok  אתH854 tha  האלהיםH430 ha Elohim:  ואיננוH369 we ain’nu;  כיH3588 chi  לקחH3947 leqch  אתו athu H853  אלהים׃H430 Elohim

And walked Hanoḵ with Elohim and then was not our, for took him Elohim.

 

Enoch with his own power was not "ascended into heaven"  "for took him Elohim".

 

Enoch ascended into heaven in a whirlwind, with horses and chariots of fire (acording to Iasher 3:36), in same way as the two  "went on and talked, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire, and separated the two; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven".

 

No man hath ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, while He has spoken: "while they beheld him, he was taken up, and the cloud received him, and he was covered from their eyes.

And while they looked into heavens as he went, two men were found standing with them in white vestments; and they said to them:

Men, Galiloyee! Why stand you looking into heavens this Yeshua who is taken up from you into heavens will so come as you have seen him ascend into the heavens". (According to Acts of Apostles 1st chapter)

 

Apocalypse 11:11-12:  "And after those three days and a half, the spirit of life from Elohe entered into them, and they arose upon their feet. And great fear fell upon them who saw them. And they heard [POLYGLOTS] a great voice from heaven, saying to them: Ascend hither! And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their adversaries beheld them".

 

Messiah was once offered to abolish sin (according Hebrews 9:26-28), "but/and as it awaits men to die once, and/but after this the judgment": (Verse 28)

"so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to those waiting for Him, unto deliverance".

 

Regarding the promise: "AMEN, I say unto you, there are men [HM: l’kem H559 şe’iş H3117-3427  me H4100  a’mdim H5975 phe H6311 : first steadfast …] standing here who shall not taste death, until they shall have seen the Son of Man [HM: H935 (Boe)  (like in: Gen 7:13; 16:13 ) H4438 (b’malkut’u) : entered …] coming in his Kingdom". – Mathew 16:28;

This was fulfilled here: And he said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of Elohe. – Acts of Apostles 7:56; 

 

Some say all men from goyim will die, but the Prophet says al nations will ascend to Jerusalem for warfare.

Regarding the promise:

Some say all people from Israel will taste dead at least once when Messiah, the Son of Man, "shall appear a second time" (according Hebrews 9:26-28) but Paul writes about "those waiting for Him, unto deliverance" and the Prophet says: "but half of the people shall not perish from the city" and "the inhabitants of Jerusalem […] shall mourn for Him".

 

"BEHOLD, the day of the LORD is coming, and your spoil shall be divided in the midst of you.

For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go into captivity, but half of the people shall not perish from the city.  Then the LORD shall go forth and fight against those nations as when he fought in the day of battle.

And his feet shall stand upon the Mount of Olives [...]" - Zechariah 14:1-4a;

And I will pour upon the House of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of favour and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as One mourneth for His only Son, and she will be in bitterness for him, as One that is in bitterness for His firstborn. - Zechariah 12:10.

And it shall come to pass, that - every one that is left of all the nations - which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King [translated I other versed: Angel of] Yahweh Tzebaot, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. -  Zechariah 14:16.

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