godhead, three gods, two gods???

[Yishmael]

all this talk about godhead and three or two gods and whatnot !!

 

Get your heads out of the churches for they are germanic/romanic/slavic folk paganism mixed with Yisraeli Scriptures, so stop qouting the "church fathers" as having any knowledge or authority about those Sacred Scriptures for it is well know they themselves only understood the Scriptures by using greek philosophy.

 

 

Let's let the writings speak of the people who knew and saw the Ancient Nazarenes;

They have no different ideas, but confess everything exactly as the Law proclaims it and in the Jewish fashion – except for their belief in Christ, if you please! For they acknowledge both the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things, and declare that God is one, and that his Son is Yeshua Mshikha (jesus christ in the original writings).

– Epiphanius of Salamis, Panarion 29.7.2

(It is interesting to note what beliefs Epiphanius contrasts between the Jews and Nazarenes, for the Jews as a whole, excluding the Sadducees, confirm the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things. It is quite possible that the distinction between them was their belief that Jesus will be the one to raise the dead (see John 6:40,44,54) and created all things (see Colossians 1:15-16), thus calling him divine yet the Son of God)

They believe that Messiah, the son of God, was born of the Virgin Mary.

– Jerome, Letter 75 Jerome to Augustine

[Mavryk Chaparral]

Anaiah said,

"We can experience that when we unite ourselves with the woman, but just because male and female are two beings does not mean Yahuwah is two beings."

1. WHY NOT?
2. There are some MAJOR contradictions in your comparison. Can you find them or do i have to spell it out in minutiae?
3. Additionally, IF your comparison were so, then making love to a woman would bring her into 100% compliance in all things for the rest of her life. ROFL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:

I agree that males and females were made in the image of Yahuwah. But Yahuwah is not multiple Yahuwahs, each having their own unique gender. Yahuwah has all the masculine characteristics, and all the feminine characteristics in his one being/person/mind. The union of man and woman is meant to picture the union between the elect and Yahuwah, where Messiah is the bridegroom, and we are the bride. It also allows us to experience what Yahuwah is like, because Yahuwah is masculine and feminine united as a single on[e]. We can experience that when we unite ourselves with the woman, but just because male and female are two beings does not mean Yahuwah is two beings. Yahuwah is one being, and we can experience that oneness of his where he is the perfect balance and unity of masculine and feminine by uniting with the woman.

[Mavryk Chaparral]

WARNING: it is NOT recommended to click on this link (especially on a full stomach)! If you so do, it is at your own risk!

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:

... has all the masculine characteristics, and all the feminine characteristics in his one being/person/mind. ... we can experience that oneness of his where he is the perfect balance and unity of masculine and feminine....

[命]

YHWH is not in any way feminine, unless you want to limit love to feminity, or stigmatize compassion as an exclusively feminine feature.
HE has a breath, and breath ("spirit", "Ruach") is GRAMMATICALLY feminine. You and I have a breath (that is also grammatically feminine), that does not mean we are part feminine. Case closed. There is NO divine mother or "sacred feminine". In fact, there is no "sacred masculine" either. YHWH is only GRAMMATICALLY masculine.

Man and woman are created in YHWH's image, which is ultimately genderless. That does not mean we are genderless. We are created in YHWH's image, who is omniscient, yet we are not omniscient.

As Anayah said, YHWH is omnipotent, and we being created in His image are not omnipotent. Likewise He is genderless, and we being created in His image have 2 genders.

[Mavryk Chaparral]

That's why you come to a wrong conclusion, Christian, you start with a wrong assumption:
you said,

"Man and woman are created in YHWH's image,"[emphasis mine]

The text only speaks of Elohim's image, not specifically YHWH's image.

In Beresheeth/Genesis 1: 26-27 it says:
26 And Elohim said, “Let Us make man in Our image,
after Our likeness:
and let them have dominion over the
fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the
cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping
thing that creeps upon the earth.”
27 So the Word of Elohim
created man in His own
image, in the image of Elohim He created him; male and
female He created them.

In the image of Elohim he made man, male and female he made them. Don’t miss that! It is one continuous thought. Elohim unavoidably emphasizes that the image of Elohim (plural) consists of both male and female. So we have Father, Son, and by implication, Mother (the Ruach HaQodesh), so obviously She is the feminine Being of Elohim since YHWH and Yehoshua are the masculine Beings of Elohim. Remember, Elohim said that it was not good that Adahm be alone. Where did He get that standard come from? From Himself. The image of Elohim: Father, Mother, Son. Ahdahm did not have a son until he first had Chawa.


and besides that the Historic Nazarenes disagreed with you.
And so did Shalome' (also a historic Nazarene)

Christian said:

YHWH is not in any way feminine, unless you want to limit love to feminity, or stigmatize compassion as an exclusively feminine feature.
HE has a breath, and breath ("spirit", "Ruach") is GRAMMATICALLY feminine. You and I have a breath (that is also grammatically feminine), that does not mean we are part feminine. Case closed. There is NO divine mother or "sacred feminine". In fact, there is no "sacred masculine" either. YHWH is only GRAMMATICALLY masculine. Man and woman are created in YHWH's image, which is ultimately genderless. That does not mean we are genderless. We are created in YHWH's image, who is omniscient, yet we are not omniscient. As Anayah said, YHWH is omnipotent, and we being created in His image are not omnipotent. Likewise He is genderless, and we being created in His image have 2 genders.

[Mavryk Chaparral]

Not everyone agrees with you Anaiah.
Link to the Odes of Shalomé

Here is a quote from the introduction:

"THE ODES OF SHALOMÉ is generally known as The Odes of Solomon. Some of the Odes have been attributed directly to Shalomé, the sister of Yahshua Messiah, in an early text titled Pistis Sophia. Further evidence for female authorship might be the repeated use of the True Name MarYah, and the recital of MarYah’s feminine aspects found throughout the book. Trusted contemporary scholars tell us that (1) the original language of the Odes is Aramaic – the language of the Messiah and the Nazoreans, (2) the origin of the Odes may be Edessa in Adiabene – a sanctuary land for persecuted Nazoreans,3 (3) there is affinity between the language, sentiment, and theology in the Odes, the Gospel According to John, and many of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and
(4) the Odes contain neither Gnostic concepts or quotes from the New Testament.
(5) since all the Odes end with HalleluYah! and water is mentioned throughout, they may have been used as part of a baptismal liturgy in the ancient assemblies of the est.
Recent archaeological discoveries point to The Gospel According to John originating before 100 AD; some scholars prefer a date closer to 70 AD. The Odes came from the same milieu as John and some of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and may be just as early.
Therefore we may surmise that The Odes of Shalomé is one of the earliest hymnbooks of the first century (AD) Nazorean Movement."

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:

the odes of Shlomo were written by Shlomo, not Salome. Shalom.

[Mavryk Chaparral]

poe-tay-oe, puh-tah-toe, Shlomo, Salomé--
The larger point i was making is that the early believers indeed had a familial understanding of Elohim (not hermaphroditic in character nor bisexual in character)

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:

obviously not everyone agrees with me. i knew you didn't, and I knew Jackson didn't either. he offers no evidence that Shalome is. historically, it was always attributed to King Solomon. Always, at least in every reference that has survived.

i didn't see your quote, but I still think it isn't compelling.

[Mavryk Chaparral]

Ever wonder why eunuchs were not allowed into the temple?

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:

Elohim is not hermaphroditic, nor is he bisexual. He is asexual. However, Elohim has masculine and feminine characteristics (not physical). Will you argue that even males don't have femininity? and females don't have masculinity? they do, but in varying degrees.

[emphasis mine]

[Mavryk Chaparral]

Gender ambiguity (physical OR OTHERWISE), and gender confusion (physical OR OTHERWISE) are both conditions which do NOT accurately reflect the IMAGE of ELOHIM [plural BeingS, hence the occurences of "Us" ond "Our" in verse 26]. Look at Beresheeth 1:27 again, it is in the very same sentence: clear gender distinctions (in the context of FAMILY) are key identifying attributes of the very image of Elohim, even more so than free will (which is not mentioned in verse 27, but is suggested in other verses). The use of "He" is a reflection of Divine Patriarchy.

So the Word of Elohim
created man in His own image, in the image of Elohim He created him: male and female He created them.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:

i don't see how that's relevant. they had to be pure, without blemish.

[Mavryk Chaparral]

What part of "OR OTHERWISE" don't you understand?
I'm not saying categorically that Elohim is physical per se, but I am saying that Elohim has the power, the potency, to be physical at will at any time that Elohim so ever wills. That physicality would have gender distinctions between BeingS-- how that would be manifest, I'll not venture into guessing, it is not our concern as mortals.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:

so Elohim is a physical male and a physical female? because surely adam and eve were created in the image of of Elohim, and Adam and Eve were physically male and female, therefore, if you were consistent, you would have to acknowledge by your reasoning that Elohim is also physically male and physically female.

[Tracy Lee Painter]

Yeshua also said, in reply to the request "show us the father, have I been with you so long, and still you do not understand? I and my Father are ONE, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father. He also said, before Abraham was, I AM.

   Brothers, I was maried for 26 years. My wife passed away. During that time, I was her husband, a father to our daughter, and a worker who brought in the income. YHVH created man in HIS image.

    But what is that image? It's not complicated. 

   A man, individually, is made in the image of God. Mankind, also, is made in the image of God. Husband, Father, provider...Father, Wife, child...

  Friends, there is ONE God. Not three. Yeshua is the Son. YHVH is the Father. They are one. The Holy Spirit is the comforter, the strengthener. 

   I believe that their is ONE God, who is ONE person...with three divine natures. Total unitiy, yet different aspects, or jobs.

   If you take the text at face value, that He meant exactly what He said, there is your answer.

   I cannot believe that the merciful YHVH would reveal something ABSOLUTELY necessary for salvation, ie faith in Yeshua as Messiah, and it be so simple, and then reveal something IMPORTANT, but not required for salvation, and it be so complicated and confusing. YHVH is not the author of confusion. Yes, get your heads out of the church. Leave that leaven alone. ALL of it.