Nazarene Space

all this talk about godhead and three or two gods and whatnot !!

 

Get your heads out of the churches for they are germanic/romanic/slavic folk paganism mixed with Yisraeli Scriptures, so stop qouting the "church fathers" as having any knowledge or authority about those Sacred Scriptures for it is well know they themselves only understood the Scriptures by using greek philosophy.

 

 

Let's let the writings speak of the people who knew and saw the Ancient Nazarenes;

They have no different ideas, but confess everything exactly as the Law proclaims it and in the Jewish fashion – except for their belief in Christ, if you please! For they acknowledge both the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things, and declare that God is one, and that his Son is Yeshua Mshikha (jesus christ in the original writings).

Epiphanius of Salamis, Panarion 29.7.2

(It is interesting to note what beliefs Epiphanius contrasts between the Jews and Nazarenes, for the Jews as a whole, excluding the Sadducees, confirm the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things. It is quite possible that the distinction between them was their belief that Jesus will be the one to raise the dead (see John 6:40,44,54) and created all things (see Colossians 1:15-16), thus calling him divine yet the Son of God)

They believe that Messiah, the son of God, was born of the Virgin Mary.

Jerome, Letter 75 Jerome to Augustine

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it's just the One God of Yisrael, He is One !! Yet He has a Son who shares in His glory from the Beginning.
Never is Rukha d'koodsha (ruakh ha kodesh) mentioned as being important or a "person" and why not?? Simply because the Ruakh is only a symbol for the breath/wisdom/blessing/power of God and not as some "third person" or "third god", get your head out of the churches!

It's just the Father and Son who have existed always and the Son IS NOT the Father yet he shares in His glory and Power because he is the Messiah and His Son! No "third person" and no different "godly systems" to understand everything, it's all very simple.. and when Yshua talks about the whole "flesh incarnation" thing that's what he talks about believing what he himself attested to the Yehudim that "before Avraham" Yshua was and not saying "wow look our Messiah is also God the Father..." because the Messiah himself sayd; "why do you call me good? There is only One that is Good and that is Alaha."

Worship Mar-Yah Alaha alone, only He answers prayers, He is the Father and only He knows when Messiah will come back because the Messiah himself did not even know when he was coming back...

as simple as that, no need for hour long studies or pagan/church doctrines to understand Yisraeli Scripture, amen!
There is One God (Echad), and three persons within the one being/Godhead.

Pure Monotheism, non-limited.
There is only One True Elohim (Elohim doesn´t mean god) the Father and His brought-forth Son is Yahshua the Messiah.

1Ti 6:13 In the sight of Elohim who gives life to all, and of Messiah יהושע who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, I charge you:
1Ti 6:14 that you guard the command spotlessly, blamelessly, until the appearing of our Master יהושע Messiah,
1Ti 6:15 which in His own seasons He shall reveal – the blessed and only Ruler, the Sovereign of sovereigns and Master of masters,
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or is able to see, to whom be respect and everlasting might. Amĕn.

The Messiah is a manifestation of YHWH Elohim, but He is not the Father, Whom no one has seen or is able to see. 1 John 1:1 says about the Messiah "What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life"
Serkan, Yahshua the Messiah didn´t said that He was/is not Good, in Yochanan 10 He said "I am the GOOD Shepherd". Yahshua the Messiah was just saying "why do you call me good?" ironically.

"why do you call me good?" Is not saying "Im not good".

An example trying to explain this irony is: Yahshua the Messiah talking :"why do you call Me the Messiah?" "There is only One that is the Messiah...." (Although He knows that He is the Messiah)...


There is One Elohim the Father (Invisible) who sent His Omnipotent Davar/Word, and the Davar became Flesh (Yochanan 1:14), Flesh from the Heaven not from the dust (Yochanan 6:51).

If it so simple the answer this question:

1 Kings 8:39 says about YHWH Elohim: "Because You – You alone – know the hearts of all the sons of men"

Then in Revelation 2:23 says about Yahshua the Messiah: "And all the assemblies shall know that I am the One searching the kidneys and hearts. And I shall give to each one of you according to your works."

The question is, Who is the One who searches the hearts?
Unitarian? Then what is the difference between your belief and Islam?

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
yes, we believe in One Elohim my friend. The essences/aspects of Elohim are all of his one person/being.

The Father is not the only aspect of Elohim. There is also the Ruach Hakodesh, the Mother aspect of Elohim. And there is also the Son aspect of Elohim, that is the manifest aspect of the Father and Mother aspect of Elohim.

To help you understand, Serkan, let's use me as an example. Okay, so say I marry someone, and she and I have a son. Okay. So, to explain to you this comparison, I have at least three aspects. I am Anayah, the father. I am also Anayah the husband. And I am Anayah, the son. I am Anayah the son because I am the son of my father and mother. So, take a look. Am I saying that I am three different people, persons, or beings? NO!!! I am merely saying that there is different aspects to my one person/being. In the same way that I am father, husband, and son, the same way Elohim is Father, Mother, and Son. Do you know understand what we are truly saying? We do not speak of anything polytheistic or trinitarian. WE ARE UNITARIAN, and there is ONLY ONE Elohim. ONLY ONE person/being of Elohim. THREE aspects as I will have THREE aspects.

Shalom.
Serkan,

I've been thinking about this lately. I too believe there is only one Elohim, and His Son is Yeshua, the Messiah. The scriptures are pretty clear in this respect. However, the scriptures are also clear in that YHWH of Hosts receives orders from YHWH of Hosts, indicating that there is more than one YHWH.

Below we see that YHWH is being sent by YHWH,
Zec 2:8-11 For thus said YHWH of hosts: "For the sake of esteem He sent me to the gentiles which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of My eye. For look, I am waving My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. And you shall know that YHWH of hosts has sent Me. Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Tsiyon! For look, I am coming, and shall dwell in your midst,” declares YHWH. “And many gentiles shall be joined to YHWH in that day, and they shall become My people. And I shall dwell in your midst. And you shall know that YHWH of hosts has sent Me to you.

Here we see that the First and the Last, the One who founded the earth and stretched out the heavens (this is obviously YHWH) is not only being sent by YHWH, but is being sent by His spirit as well.
Isa 48:12-16 Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel My called: I am He; I am the First; surely I am the Last. My hand surely founded earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens; I called to them, they stood up together. All of you gather and hear: Who among them has declared these things? YHWH has loved him. He will do His pleasure on Babylon; yea, His arm shall be on the Chaldeans. I, I have spoken; yea, I have called him, I brought him, and he causes his way to prosper. Come near to Me; hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Master YHWH, and His Spirit, has sent Me.

What are your thoughts concerning these verses which depict more than one YHWH?

Rudy.
If the true and living God can't be distinguished COMPLETELY with NO SIMILARITIES to that of Pagan gods, why would you serve this deity? Your statements do not add up.

My God has nothing in common with Allah.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
i don't know Islam well enough to make good enough distinctions. What I do know is that the Elohim of the "Old Testament" is the same as the Elohim of the "New Testament". My Elohim is unitarian in person/being. How can you object so vehemently when I make the statements "I believe the Holy Spirit is Elohim. I believe the Father is Elohim. I believe the Son is Elohim." All those statements you would agree with. It is also makes sense that many aspects of Allah are similar to Yahuwah. Notice I said many and not all. Why does it make sense? Because Islam is based off of the Scriptures of Yahuwah. And please note I say there are many aspects of Allah similar, not all.

I personally believe the Great Spirit of many Native American religions is the same as Yahuwah. There is a broad range of evidence that many Native Americans are in fact lost tribe Israelites.
1. Monotheism and Radical Monism is not the same. You could never make a comparison between the Triune God of Scripture, and that of Allah.
2-3. The use of the word predestined here is not correct, God had ordained everything, and what is "must be in line with God's will"? God's will is inseparable from salvation, and an individual's volition is not a part of the salvation and justification, God changes the heart from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh.
4. In order to fathom God, one must understand that He is eternal, and eternal beings without a beginning, automatically have the features of omnipotence/presence/science, calling Allah omnibenevolent is false, he's a malicious dictator, thus this can not be a commonality, as this is inseparable from a true belief in one deity.
5. As you should realize, there is no comparison between the inspiration of the Bible, and the islamic belief that the Angel Gabriel relayed the words of Allah to Mohammad and later a Qur'an was produced. Also, sacred writings are found in Buddhism, Confucianism, Jainism, Daoism, and none of these "religions" have gods or goddesses. Thus sacred writing is not a point you can make.
6. Erm. When was the last time God taught Heaven or Hell? Unless you mean what Jesus said on earth, but God does not speak on Heaven or Hell frequently, in fact, I'm not sure if I can produce a verse where he does, I'm sure he does though. Also, Allah doesn't teach "heaven" or "hell", he teaches a finite hell akin to purgatory with a small "eternal" part, consisting of seven levels, while heaven contains 100 levels. This type of belief isn't comparable to our beliefs.
7. This last one makes no sense, it's a Monotheism, of course there's a ban on idolatry because ALL Monotheism COMES FROM Idolatry/Paganism. Mute point as far as I'm concerned.

So again, subjective comparisons with no weight do not allow us to determine similarities.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
are you sure? i thought your God is monotheistic? commonality one. your God has predestined everything, including who is saved and who isn't. the saved must be in line with God's will in order to be saved. commonality two and three. your God is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent, as well as omnibenevolent. commonality four. your God reveals himself through sacred writing. commonality five. your God teaches heaven and hell. commonality six. idolatry is condemned along with other immoral practices. commonality seven.

lots of pagan religions have parts of truth. these truths come from events that actually happened. for example, all the greek gods of mythology are based on real beings that sinned against God, fallen angels if you will, and giants.
And this is the love, that we walk according to His Signposts, this is the ARTICLE, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it!

Because many are leading astray went into the world who DO NOT CONFESS that YeweShua the Anointed One is coming in the FLESH; this one who is leading astray AND the anti-messiah; see that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that we recieve a complete reward, everyone who is transgressing and not staying in the teaching of the Anointed One does not posses Elohim, the one staying in the teaching of the Anointed One posses BOTH the Father and the Son; if anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not recieve him into your house, nor greet him, for he who greets him shares in his wicked works.

You should not have ANY OTHER Elohim before My face, you do not make any carved image, or likeness which is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth below, or that is in the waters under the earth, you do not bow down and serve them, for I YEWE, your Elohim am a jealous El, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children of the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing love to those who love Me, and who guard, keep, obey, and do My Articles

NO ONE comes to the FATHER except through Me!

He is the Anointed One in the Flesh, there is only one command.

we are promised salvation through the Anointed One not another Elohim!

Shalom
Yes I'm quite confused as well. I have no disagreement with the above post. However, I would like to emphasize the word is not El, but Elohim. (God is both, but the latter is more proper)

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
I'm not sure what you are saying sevynn. i don't know who you are talking to, and what you are responding to. could you clarify these things?
Yes even in Torah it's clear to see Yshua already as being a pre-existing being some say he is the "Melech YHWH" talked about so many times.. Yshua is actually called "Mar-Yah Yshua Mshikha" in the Aramaic ketuvim netzarim, i still don't see the necessity to follow the church and say there are two gods...

There is only One, the Father who we should all worship and not direct prayers to His son or His Ruakh.
I see it this way that Yshua is the Special Agent of Alaha who was entrusted with all the Powers of Alaha (forgiving of sins, controlling nature, etc.) as to show the people his son- and Messiahship. that's my statement of faith when it comes to Yshua.. i wonder who agrees with me on that? Or do you guys honestly think that we need to worship Ruakh and Yshua to be righteous (i'm not seriously saying you guys can change my mind because i only worship the Father and pray to Him not to Ruakh or Yshua..), seriously ???
i only pray to the Father, and YeweShua is the Messiah or Anointed One, the Son of YEWE, He is the Messiah in the flesh, as 2 Yochanan states, a short easy read, maybe that will clarify it more for you. As far as YeweShua goes He is my Messiah, Anointed One, Salvation of YEWE.


you shall not bow down and serve them, for I YEWE your Elohim am a jealous El: Hebraic Roots Version Scriptures

Shalom

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