Nazarene Space

Is (or is not) having sex on the Sabbath a sin?

I myself am (strongly) of the opinion that it is not a sin to have sex on the Sabbath; however, there are several individuals here who are (strongly) of the opinion that it is indeed a sin.

This topic has been discussed in a previous thread regarding the Sabbath restrictions found in the Book of Jubilees (not a book I support in any way), but the emphasis of that thread was on Jubilees, not this specific issue of sex on the Sabbath.

I would like to hear diverse answers from NazSpace members concerning their opinion on the matter.

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i capitalized it, shalom

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
i said this earlier: "Notice leviticus says "Or if he touch the uncleanness of man, WHATSOEVER UNCLEANNESS THAT A MAN SHALL BE DEFILED WITHAL, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth, then he shall be guilty." Notice the capitalized section. If touching any uncleanness defiled someone, then this capitalized section would not be necessary at all."
And if a soul 5315 sin 2398 , and commit 6213 any 259 of these things which are forbidden to be done 6213 by the commandments 4687 of the LORD 3068; though he wist 3045 [it] not, yet is he guilty 816 , and shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771.

Shalom


J. Jury said:
I want to understand what you are saying.

If by "guilt" do you take this to mean "sin"?

sevynn leverette said:
And if a soul 5315 sin 2398 , and hear 8085 the voice 6963 of swearing 423, and [is] a witness 5707, whether 176 he hath seen 7200 or known 3045 [of it]; if he do not utter 5046 [it], then he shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771. Or if a soul 5315 touch 5060 any unclean 2931 thing 1697, whether [it be] a carcase 5038 of an unclean 2931 beast 2416, or a carcase 5038 of unclean 2931 cattle 929, or the carcase 5038 of unclean 2931 creeping things 8318, and [if] it be hidden 5956 from him; he also shall be unclean 2931, and guilty 816 . Or if he touch 5060 the uncleanness 2932 of man 120, whatsoever uncleanness 2932 [it be] that a man shall be defiled 2930 withal, and it be hid 5956 from him; when he knoweth 3045 [of it], then he shall be guilty 816 . Or if a soul 5315 swear 7650 , pronouncing 981 with [his] lips 8193 to do evil 7489 , or to do good 3190 , whatsoever [it be] that a man 120 shall pronounce 981 with an oath 7621, and it be hid 5956 from him; when he knoweth 3045 [of it], then he shall be guilty 816 in one 259 of these.And it shall be, when he shall be guilty 816 in one 259 of these [things], that he shall confess 3034 that he hath sinned 2398 in that [thing]: And if a soul 5315 sin 2398 , and commit 6213 any 259 of these things which are forbidden to be done 6213 by the commandments 4687 of the LORD 3068; though he wist 3045 [it] not, yet is he guilty 816 , and shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771.

Shalom
So are you saying that the guilt of uncleanliness is automatically the guilt of sin?

sevynn leverette said:
And if a soul 5315 sin 2398 , and commit 6213 any 259 of these things which are forbidden to be done 6213 by the commandments 4687 of the LORD 3068; though he wist 3045 [it] not, yet is he guilty 816 , and shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771.

Shalom


J. Jury said:
I want to understand what you are saying.

If by "guilt" do you take this to mean "sin"?

sevynn leverette said:
And if a soul 5315 sin 2398 , and hear 8085 the voice 6963 of swearing 423, and [is] a witness 5707, whether 176 he hath seen 7200 or known 3045 [of it]; if he do not utter 5046 [it], then he shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771. Or if a soul 5315 touch 5060 any unclean 2931 thing 1697, whether [it be] a carcase 5038 of an unclean 2931 beast 2416, or a carcase 5038 of unclean 2931 cattle 929, or the carcase 5038 of unclean 2931 creeping things 8318, and [if] it be hidden 5956 from him; he also shall be unclean 2931, and guilty 816 . Or if he touch 5060 the uncleanness 2932 of man 120, whatsoever uncleanness 2932 [it be] that a man shall be defiled 2930 withal, and it be hid 5956 from him; when he knoweth 3045 [of it], then he shall be guilty 816 . Or if a soul 5315 swear 7650 , pronouncing 981 with [his] lips 8193 to do evil 7489 , or to do good 3190 , whatsoever [it be] that a man 120 shall pronounce 981 with an oath 7621, and it be hid 5956 from him; when he knoweth 3045 [of it], then he shall be guilty 816 in one 259 of these.And it shall be, when he shall be guilty 816 in one 259 of these [things], that he shall confess 3034 that he hath sinned 2398 in that [thing]: And if a soul 5315 sin 2398 , and commit 6213 any 259 of these things which are forbidden to be done 6213 by the commandments 4687 of the LORD 3068; though he wist 3045 [it] not, yet is he guilty 816 , and shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771.

Shalom
And if a soul 5315 sin 2398 , and commit 6213 any 259 of these things which are forbidden to be done 6213 by the commandments 4687 of the LORD 3068; though he wist 3045 [it] not, yet is he guilty 816 , and shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771

Torah is always correct; he that is guilty shall bear his iniquity

Shalom
Numbers 6:13“‘Now this is the law for the Nazirite when the period of his separation is over. He is to be brought to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 14There he is to present his offerings to the Lord: a year-old male lamb without defect for a burnt offering, a year-old ewe lamb without defect for a sin offering, a ram without defect for a fellowship offering,a 15together with their grain offerings and drink offerings, and a basket of bread made without yeast—cakes made of fine flour mixed with oil, and wafers spread with oil.

When the Nazirite ends his time of holy separation, he is required to make something called a "sin offering", yet he has committed no sin.
No sin is specified on the part of the Nazirite, otherwise, it might even be sin to become a Nazirite, since one "automatically sins" by ending the Nazirite separation period.
When Paul ended his Nazirite vows and visited the temple, no sin is specified on his part, yet he had to make the sacrifices...

sevynn leverette said:
And if a soul 5315 sin 2398 , and commit 6213 any 259 of these things which are forbidden to be done 6213 by the commandments 4687 of the LORD 3068; though he wist 3045 [it] not, yet is he guilty 816 , and shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771
Torah is always correct; he that is guilty shall bear his iniquity Shalom
you are getting off track, because if a nazarite has any of these things happen he too is unclean!!!!!!!! PERIOD all are under the instruction of Torah

Shalom
I can pick up the Torah and read it as plain as day, but what I am asking is if you believe the text is saying that all uncleanliness is automatically sin?

sevynn leverette said:
And if a soul 5315 sin 2398 , and commit 6213 any 259 of these things which are forbidden to be done 6213 by the commandments 4687 of the LORD 3068; though he wist 3045 [it] not, yet is he guilty 816 , and shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771
Torah is always correct; he that is guilty shall bear his iniquity
Shalom
yet is he guilty 816 , and shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771


yes i believe this to be true!
Her priests 3548 have violated 2554 my law 8451, and have profaned 2490 mine holy things 6944: they have put no difference 914 between the holy 6944 and profane 2455, neither have they shewed 3045 [difference] between the unclean 2931 and the clean 2889, and have hid 5956 their eyes 5869 from my sabbaths 7676, and I am profaned 2490 among 8432 them.

And they shall teach 3384 my people 5971 [the difference] between the holy 6944 and profane 2455, and cause them to discern 3045 between the unclean 2931 and the clean 2889

sevynn leverette said:
yet is he guilty 816 , and shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771


yes i believe this to be true!
So, do you believe that it is a woman who is menstruating is automatically committing a sin?

Or a woman after childbirth, is she sinning?

Has a man who has just released his seed sinning?

These are the dilemmas one must face in pronouncing "all uncleanliness is sin".

sevynn leverette said:
yet is he guilty 816 , and shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771


yes i believe this to be true!
The point was, a "sin offering" can be demanded even when there is no sin.

Acts 21:23so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
26The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.

Why did Paul have to purify himself and make the sin-offering for his Nazirite vow (Numbers 6:13-15), if he had no sin?
Clearly, the Hebrew words for sin and guilt do not mean what we make of them in our anglo-greek understanding...

Otherwise, a Nazirite is literally a sinner for ending his vow... ever. This seems unreasonable.
do you believe they are unclean during these times?????

Shalom

J. Jury said:
So, do you believe that it is a woman who is menstruating is automatically committing a sin?

Or a woman after childbirth, is she sinning?

Has a man who has just released his seed sinning?

These are the dilemmas one must face in pronouncing "all uncleanliness is sin".

sevynn leverette said:
yet is he guilty 816 , and shall bear 5375 his iniquity 5771


yes i believe this to be true!

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