Nazarene Space

Is (or is not) having sex on the Sabbath a sin?

I myself am (strongly) of the opinion that it is not a sin to have sex on the Sabbath; however, there are several individuals here who are (strongly) of the opinion that it is indeed a sin.

This topic has been discussed in a previous thread regarding the Sabbath restrictions found in the Book of Jubilees (not a book I support in any way), but the emphasis of that thread was on Jubilees, not this specific issue of sex on the Sabbath.

I would like to hear diverse answers from NazSpace members concerning their opinion on the matter.

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Why the two accounts, why plant a garden after creation, YEWE is an Elohyim of order not chaos. Why would ben adahm say the woman you gave me, IF she were present. The second account calls it a birthing, genealogy, a reproduction, why separate the two if they were present from the beginning??? Why would YEWE say i see it is not good for humankind to be alone, after the naming of the animals which were created before humankind, all having been pairs with mates?????

Shalom

J. Jury said:
I don't know that I can agree with this. But that's besides the point.

Genesis makes it clear that Adam and Eve were being fruitful / multiplying at least by the end of the sixth day of the first week on earth.

Chronological order of events:

1) Adam and Eve were created.
2) They were commanded, "Be fruitful and multiply."
3) The sixth day ended.
4) Adam and Eve were busy being fruitful / multiplying by the time the 7th day started.

"26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."


If you believe that Eve was not created on the 6th day, right along side Adam, then God was essentially telling Adam- a hermaphroditic creature (?)- to be fruitful and multiply. Doesn't make any sense. Eve was clearly present with Adam on the 6th day when they received the command.

sevynn leverette said:
The genesis account shows ben adahm placed in the garden after creation; the garden was not before the first Shabbat. After ben adahm was given by YEWE a place to provide for a woman, was she placed in his care, after the calling of all things he was given dominion over, land, plants, animals; the garden; THEN the wife??????
Shalom
sevynn leverette said:
Was eve created before the sixth Day, or was human created and not separated until YEWE planted humankind in the garden after the first Shabbat??????

J. Jury said:
There is no such extra week (as the Genesis account clearly takes place during one literal seven day week), hence there is no intermediate time between when Eve was separated from Adam.

Ya'acov's point is absolutely correct. They were instructed "be fruitful and multiply" toward the end of the 6th day, as Sabbath was approaching.
Q. Why the two accounts
A. Most of Genesis 2 took place during the 6th day of Genesis 1.

Q. why plant a garden after creation
A. Where is it recorded (in canonical texts) that the Garden was created after creation?

Q. Why would ben adahm say the woman you gave me, IF she were present.
A. I did not say they were created in the same instant, rather, that they were created in the same day. Eve was given to Adam on the 6th day.

Q. Why would YEWE say i see it is not good for humankind to be alone, after the naming of the animals which were created before humankind, all having been pairs with mates?????
A. Again, I did not say they were created in the same instant, rather, that they were created in the same day. Eve was given to Adam on the 6th day. Animals were created, Adam named them, then Eve was created. All on the 6th day.
They very well may have. They also most likely continued this WELL into the next day.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
why couldn't they be fruitful and multiply on the sixth day, Jesse?
Whether you want to call it 12 hours or 24 hours, here is the timeline for the 6th day as I see it in Genesis 1-2.

1) Animals were created.
2) Adam was created.
3) Adam named all the animals.
4) Eve was uniquely created.
5) They were commanded, "Be fruitful and multiply."
6) The sixth day ended.
7) Adam and Eve were busy being fruitful / multiplying by the time the 7th day started.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
you think all those events happened in 12 hours, Jesse?
Just curious- Ya'acov, would you agree with this tentative timeline for the sixth day?

J. Jury said:
Whether you want to call it 12 hours or 24 hours, here is the timeline for the 6th day as I see it in Genesis 1-2.

1) Animals were created.
2) Adam was created.
3) Adam named all the animals.
4) Eve was uniquely created.
5) They were commanded, "Be fruitful and multiply."
6) The sixth day ended.
7) Adam and Eve were busy being fruitful / multiplying by the time the 7th day started.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
you think all those events happened in 12 hours, Jesse?
i can put all of creation in one day, create mankind, bring every kind of animal on earth in front of mankind, he names them all???????? this seems all neat and tidy all on sixth day, EXcept two starts with Shabbat it makes your argument backwards starting with shabbat, name the animals, notice manking is alone, plant a garden, perform surgery, etc, now why would YEWE write things out of order????????

Shalom

J. Jury said:
Just curious- Ya'acov, would you agree with this tentative timeline for the sixth day?

J. Jury said:
Whether you want to call it 12 hours or 24 hours, here is the timeline for the 6th day as I see it in Genesis 1-2.

1) Animals were created.
2) Adam was created.
3) Adam named all the animals.
4) Eve was uniquely created.
5) They were commanded, "Be fruitful and multiply."
6) The sixth day ended.
7) Adam and Eve were busy being fruitful / multiplying by the time the 7th day started.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
you think all those events happened in 12 hours, Jesse?
Not all of the Torah is chronological.
This applies to ALL 5 books of the Torah.
F.ex Deuteronomy is chock full of non-chronological events.

Why is everything a question with you????????????
Shalom

sevynn leverette said:
i can put all of creation in one day, create mankind, bring every kind of animal on earth in front of mankind, he names them all???????? this seems all neat and tidy all on sixth day, EXcept two starts with Shabbat it makes your argument backwards starting with shabbat, name the animals, notice manking is alone, plant a garden, perform surgery, etc, now why would YEWE write things out of order????????
Shalom J. Jury said:
Just curious- Ya'acov, would you agree with this tentative timeline for the sixth day?

J. Jury said:
Whether you want to call it 12 hours or 24 hours, here is the timeline for the 6th day as I see it in Genesis 1-2.

1) Animals were created.
2) Adam was created.
3) Adam named all the animals.
4) Eve was uniquely created.
5) They were commanded, "Be fruitful and multiply."
6) The sixth day ended.
7) Adam and Eve were busy being fruitful / multiplying by the time the 7th day started.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
you think all those events happened in 12 hours, Jesse?
However the original text for one and two show different articles doing the creating, one is Elohyim by proxy of Seven Spirits and two using YEWE/He exists as Article creating; garden, surgery, set-apart directives to mankind, Two accounts, two different Hebraic expressions of delivery in the creation process and timing. It may seem as chronilogoical order is off, but right in line with the Hebraic mindset. Example heart in Hebrew is core of one's thinking; not an emotion as the western mindset renders it to mean. We will be convert by the renewing of our minds. So my questions are to understand why you come up with these conclusions????????

Shalom

Christian said:
Not all of the Torah is chronological.
This applies to ALL 5 books of the Torah.
F.ex Deuteronomy is chock full of non-chronological events.

Why is everything a question with you????????????
Shalom

sevynn leverette said:
i can put all of creation in one day, create mankind, bring every kind of animal on earth in front of mankind, he names them all???????? this seems all neat and tidy all on sixth day, EXcept two starts with Shabbat it makes your argument backwards starting with shabbat, name the animals, notice manking is alone, plant a garden, perform surgery, etc, now why would YEWE write things out of order????????
Shalom J. Jury said:
Just curious- Ya'acov, would you agree with this tentative timeline for the sixth day?

J. Jury said:
Whether you want to call it 12 hours or 24 hours, here is the timeline for the 6th day as I see it in Genesis 1-2.

1) Animals were created.
2) Adam was created.
3) Adam named all the animals.
4) Eve was uniquely created.
5) They were commanded, "Be fruitful and multiply."
6) The sixth day ended.
7) Adam and Eve were busy being fruitful / multiplying by the time the 7th day started.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
you think all those events happened in 12 hours, Jesse?
This and other conversations like it never would have come up if CERTAIN PEOPLE HAD NOT ADDED EXTRA LAWS TO THE TORAH AND TRIED TO UNILATERALLY IMPOSE THEIR EXTRA LAWS ON TO OTHERS! So that is where it started.

Jeremiah Moses said:
I thought that Dr trimm said that we would have a family safe lace to have comversations... this is not family safe!!
I'm alttle offended by this and others that have come up. This should be talked about in private not in the open .
Yes, that is how i understood it.

J. Jury said:
Just curious- Ya'acov, would you agree with this tentative timeline for the sixth day?

J. Jury said:
Whether you want to call it 12 hours or 24 hours, here is the timeline for the 6th day as I see it in Genesis 1-2.

1) Animals were created.
2) Adam was created.
3) Adam named all the animals.
4) Eve was uniquely created.
5) They were commanded, "Be fruitful and multiply."
6) The sixth day ended.
7) Adam and Eve were busy being fruitful / multiplying by the time the 7th day started.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
you think all those events happened in 12 hours, Jesse?
i understood it as graphic content, this portion is very family safe, what offends you about Eve being created?????

Shalom

Jeremiah Moses said:
I thought that Dr trimm said that we would have a family safe lace to have comversations... this is not family safe!!
I'm alttle offended by this and others that have come up. This should be talked about in private not in the open .
I have no problem wit a generic conversation about whether sex is permitted on the Sabbath in the main area, so long as it is not graphic. However if the nature of the sex becomes a point, the conversation will need to move to the private group created for such discussion. http://nazarenespace.ning.com/group/biblicalsexualissues

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