Nazarene Space

Jubilee/Qumran Solar Calendar Vs Lunar Psalmist Calendar! Helppppp...

Shalom to all, I hope some of you may be able to help expound and give me some closure on a puzzle/subject I can't seem to crack for years. See thread title.

After studying the Enoch/Essene Qumran solar calendar and pretty much appreciating its uniformity and precision, I've now run into a jam. The non canonical book of Jubilees states this :

Jubilees 6: 30-38 :
  1. And all the days of the commandment will be two and fifty weeks of days, and (these will make) the entire year complete. Thus it is engraven and ordained on the
  2. And there is no neglecting (this commandment) for a single year or from year to year.
  3. And command thou the children of Israel that they observe the years according to this reckoning- three hundred and sixty-four days, and (these) will
    constitute a complete year, and
    they will not disturb its time from its days and from its feasts; for
    everything will fall out in them
    according to
    their testimony, and they will not leave out any day nor disturb any
  4. But if they do neglect and do not observe them according to His commandment, then they will disturb all
    their seasons and the years will be dislodged from this (order), [and
    they will disturb the seasons
    and the years
    will be dislodged] and they will neglect their ordinances.
  5. And all the children of Israel will forget and will not find the path of the years, and will forget the
    new moons, and seasons, and
    and they will go wrong as to all the order of the years.
  6. For I know and from henceforth will I declare it unto thee, and it is not of my own
    devising; for the book (lies) written
    before me, and on the heavenly tablets the division of days is ordained,
    lest they forget the feasts
    of the covenant
    and walk according to the feasts of the Gentiles after their error
    and after their
  7. For there will be those who will assuredly make observations of the moon -how (it) disturbs the
    seasons and comes in from year to year ten days too soon.
  8. For this reason the years will come upon them when they will disturb (the order), and make an
    abominable (day) the day of
    testimony, and an unclean day a feast day, and they will confound all
    the days, the holy with the
    unclean, and the unclean day with the holy; for they will go wrong as to
    the months and sabbaths
    and feasts and
  9. For this reason I command and testify to thee that thou mayst testify to them; for after thy death thy children will disturb (them), so that they will
    not make the year three
    hundred and sixty-four days only, and for this reason they will go wrong
    as to the new moons and
    seasons and sabbaths and festivals, and they will eat all kinds of blood
    with all kinds of flesh.
Now, King David or whoever Psalm 104 : 19 is attested to wrote this :
He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.

See my confusion? Jubilees says use the sun to make calendar and mark feast dates, but our trusty told Tanakh says use the moon. Jubilees has a warning against using the moon. Whats going on?

So I have a few questions I'd like answered in this order :

1.) Which is the correct method for dating feasts? Moon as prescribed in Psalms or Jubilee Sun Calendar? Why?

2.) If your answer to the first question is the Solar Jubilee calendar, then how do you reconcile that to the fact Genesis 1 says that both the sun and moon are to be used, yet Book of jubilees warns against using the moon. What therefore is the use of the moon to the Jubilee/Enoch calendar system?

3.) I have seen no direct command for calendar intercalation in the Tanakh (no not even in Ezekiel). Is there a concrete, solid method for the 1 and a quarter day discrepancy that exists for the Jubilee calendar? Or is this 365 and a quarter day just some made up science hogwash, and the year is truly a perfect 364 cycle as stated in the book of Jubilees?

Many thanks in advance. I await some closure on this puzzle I've had for so long.

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Your "logic" has condemned eating fruit and vegetables as a sin - your logic counts for NOTHING.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
there's nothing wrong with using logic. I demonstrated how there are only three positions that could be true. We must try and figure out which of the three it is. It is necessary to compare it to the Gregorian calendar, so that we can compare the effects and how it differs.
So you don't eat fruits or vegetables?

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
my logic is Scripturally based. the Scriptures teach us not to eat anything that is planted on the land by humans during the impure years. since they don't do Shmita, every year is an impure year.
Then you'll probably die of malnutrition / cancer / gut rot.

Your choice... not a pleasant way to go, either way.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
not anymore.
Without an proper intake of fruits and vegetables, you'll very likely die from one of the three aforementioned things, or at least be sick.

I'm like any red-blooded American: I enjoy a fresh grilled steak every once in a while... but as soon as you make meat one of the primary sources of nutrition, you've just poisoned your poor, nutrient depleted body.

There is nothing like fresh produce to enable the body to make itself healthy.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
or i could eat from of the many things that are acceptable that are out there.

I am going to soon go shopping and buy lots of acceptable products.
...Ok, lol.

Ben, I am going to be working on a detailed response to those 3 questions.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
i will eat meat and dairy, together. take that rabbinics!
I just ate bread today, take that Andy!

Also, do you refuse to obey the commandment to eat Matzoh during the Pesach ?
Will your agapes include eating bread as the flesh of Christ ?

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
i will eat meat and dairy, together. take that rabbinics!
No, I think Christian's on to something here...

"Also, do you refuse to obey the commandment to eat Matzoh during the Pesach?"

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
"I just ate bread today, take that Andy!" Its Anayah.

"Also, do you refuse to obey the commandment to eat Matzoh during the Pesach ?" Do you refuse to obey the commandment to eat the Lamb during Pesach if all you could it was unkosher lamb?

"Will your agapes include eating bread as the flesh of Christ ?" Ignatius teaches us that no one is allowed to have an Agape Feast outside of the congregation of the Synagogue, and there must be an overseer present. Abstaining from unclean/forbidden foods is of greater weight than the command to eat certain foods at certain times.
Don't you think you're missing the heart of the matter?

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
i refuse to obey to eat unclean bread in the same way i refuse to eat unclean lamb for passover. If I can't find clean lamb, I will not eat lamb. If I can't find clean bread, I will not eat bread.
In the great scheme of things, if the reckoning of the year does not begin at Rosh Chodesh (by observance of the first sliver) during the aviv of barley in Israel, the calendar is a (pun intended) non-starter for me.
So how is the calendar kept by those who are unable to "observe the barley"?
Internet hasn't always existed; people in diaspora 200 years ago would have no way of setting a correct calendar date based on these criteria you seem to give, Phil ?

Phillip Hawley said:
In the great scheme of things, if the reckoning of the year does not begin at Rosh Chodesh (by observance of the first sliver) during the aviv of barley in Israel, the calendar is a (pun intended) non-starter for me.
This needs to be moved to the Alternate Calendar Debate group
Enoch's calendar is becoming even more clear to me now. By deductive reasoning and by other witnesses that I've discussed this matter with. Another piece of exciting news that I found out regarding Enoch's calendar is that it is broken up into a 360 degree circle. The four extra days in Enoch's calendar represent the days when the Sun stays in the same decan/degree at least one extra day. These extra days occur at the solstices and equinoxes. The new moon occaisionally falls on these dates but the majority of the time doesn't. Enoch says that the moon follows it's own peculiar pattern. The possibility exists that the moon at some time in the past may have fell accurately and consistently on these days. However at our present day and age we know without question that it does not.

Grammar problems arise with substituting New Moon in place of Month
Qumran Fragment 4QcommGen A Column II Verse 1
Reading right to left:
יום עשר ובשבעה נוח לחיי שנה מאות ושש באחת
day ten in the seven Noah life year hundredth sixth In the
השני לחודש
two month
The above is translated as “In the 600th year of Noah's life in the seventeen day of the second month.”
a) per hebrew dictionary Chodesh חֹדֶשׁ is month not new moon
b) per hebrew dictionary Chid-desh חִדֵּשׁ is to renew
c) per hebrew dictionary Cha-dash חָדָשׁ is new or unused
d) per hebrew dictionary Chid-dooshחִדּוּשׁ is a new moon or new idea
e) per hebrew dictionary Chood-deshחֻדַּשׁ renew or to recommense
f) per hebrew dictionary Cha-deshai חָדְשִׁי monthly (adjective)
g) Meed-dai Chodesh Bay-Chad-Shoמִדֵּי חֹדֶשׁ בְּחָדְשׁוֹ each and every month
h) per hebrew dictionary Ha-Chodesh הַחֹ֧דֶשׁ the month
i) per hebrew dictionary Yarecha יָרֵחַ moon
j) per hebrew dictionary Yarechon יַרְחוֹן monthly (noun)
k) Genesis 7:11a בַּחֹ֙דֶשׁ This word usually appears with another qualifier word to help determine which month of the year is applicable such as: first month, second month, etc.
l) Genesis 7:11b לַחֹ֑דֶשׁ This word-usually appears with another qualifier word to help determine which day of the month is applicable such as: first day, second day, etc.
In Genesis 8:13 the Hebrew word: לַחֹ֔דֶשׁ appears. However if it qualifies as a word to represent the “New Moon” without any additional grammar help? Then why does a redundant qualifier word such as:אֶחָ֣ד (meaning: first) preceed it. Other redundant qualifiers are found in Ex 40:2, Ex 40:17,
Lev 23:24, Num 1:1, Num 1:18,
Referring to line g above if Chodesh were used for each and every new moon instead of each and every month then you would be limiting yourself to one day for each new moon instead of a full 30(+) days for each new month
For proper Hebrew grammar the New Things” shown below require at least two Hebrew words for proper Hebrew grammar and tranliteration:
New Day, New Year, New Age, New Covenant, New King. New Offering, New House, New gods,
New Rope, New Cart, New Sword, New Cloak, and many others.
With this in mind; Why would the New Moon be the only exception to this rule by requiring only one word Chodesh to represent its full intended meaning?
Which transliteration of Genesis 29:14b is correct?
1 Surely thou art my bone and my flesh and he abode with him a space of a new moon (1 day)
2 Surely thou art my bone and my flesh and he abode with him a space of a month (30 or 31 days)
This same problem occurs in Ex 19:1, Ex 23:15, Ex 34:18, Num 3:15, Num 3:22, Num 3:28,
Num 3:34, Num 3:39, Num 3:40, Num 3:43, Num 9:22, Num 11:20, Num 11:21, Num 18:16,
Num 26:62, Num 28:14.
Other witnesses to the problem of mistranslating month as new moon are shown below:
First Witness: A new moon will not divide evenly into a 364 day year, however 3 solar months of 91 days will divide evenly into a 364 day year.
Second Witness: The greater light to rule the day is the Sun, the lesser light to rule the night is the stars.
Analogy: If your boss put you in charge of hiring two security guards to watch over his business. The first one was hired to work the day time shift from 6am to 6pm and the other security guard was hired to work the night time shift from 6pm to 6am how happy would your boss be if he came to find out that the night shift security guard left his night shift post to work along side the day time security guard. In actuality the Moon doesn't rule the night because it wasn't assigned to rule the night because it would be unfaithful in its rulership over the night. The stars always appear at night and the moon doesn't. The book of Jubilees sternly warns against using the moon as a time piece.
Third Witness: The Septuagint says the Greater light begins the day, The lesser light begins the night. The only faithful light that begins the night is the stars.
Fourth Witness: Both Chronicles and Qumran documents show 24 priestly rotations throughout the span of a 12 month cycle with with no exceptions representing a 13 month cycle.
FifthWitness: In all the Torah, Tanach, and Brit Hadesha no 13th month of Adar Bet is ever mentioned.
Let's study the verse listed below:
David said to Jonathan, tomorrow is the new moon, and I am to sit with the king at the meal.
Now let's reconstruct the verse on how it should should be literally translated...
hnh ntnwhy-la dwd rmayw
(upon us is) (Jonathan) (unto) (David) (Said)
bca bcy yknaw rjm cdh
(down) (to sit) (and I'm) (tomorrow) (the month)
lwkal klmh mu
(to eat) (the king) (with)

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