Nazarene Space

Jubilee/Qumran Solar Calendar Vs Lunar Psalmist Calendar! Helppppp...

Shalom to all, I hope some of you may be able to help expound and give me some closure on a puzzle/subject I can't seem to crack for years. See thread title.

After studying the Enoch/Essene Qumran solar calendar and pretty much appreciating its uniformity and precision, I've now run into a jam. The non canonical book of Jubilees states this :

Jubilees 6: 30-38 :
  1. And all the days of the commandment will be two and fifty weeks of days, and (these will make) the entire year complete. Thus it is engraven and ordained on the
    heavenly
    tablets.
  2. And there is no neglecting (this commandment) for a single year or from year to year.
  3. And command thou the children of Israel that they observe the years according to this reckoning- three hundred and sixty-four days, and (these) will
    constitute a complete year, and
    they will not disturb its time from its days and from its feasts; for
    everything will fall out in them
    according to
    their testimony, and they will not leave out any day nor disturb any
    feasts.
  4. But if they do neglect and do not observe them according to His commandment, then they will disturb all
    their seasons and the years will be dislodged from this (order), [and
    they will disturb the seasons
    and the years
    will be dislodged] and they will neglect their ordinances.
  5. And all the children of Israel will forget and will not find the path of the years, and will forget the
    new moons, and seasons, and
    sabbaths
    and they will go wrong as to all the order of the years.
  6. For I know and from henceforth will I declare it unto thee, and it is not of my own
    devising; for the book (lies) written
    before me, and on the heavenly tablets the division of days is ordained,
    lest they forget the feasts
    of the covenant
    and walk according to the feasts of the Gentiles after their error
    and after their
    ignorance.
  7. For there will be those who will assuredly make observations of the moon -how (it) disturbs the
    seasons and comes in from year to year ten days too soon.
  8. For this reason the years will come upon them when they will disturb (the order), and make an
    abominable (day) the day of
    testimony, and an unclean day a feast day, and they will confound all
    the days, the holy with the
    unclean, and the unclean day with the holy; for they will go wrong as to
    the months and sabbaths
    and feasts and
    jubilees.
  9. For this reason I command and testify to thee that thou mayst testify to them; for after thy death thy children will disturb (them), so that they will
    not make the year three
    hundred and sixty-four days only, and for this reason they will go wrong
    as to the new moons and
    seasons and sabbaths and festivals, and they will eat all kinds of blood
    with all kinds of flesh.
Now, King David or whoever Psalm 104 : 19 is attested to wrote this :
19
He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.

See my confusion? Jubilees says use the sun to make calendar and mark feast dates, but our trusty told Tanakh says use the moon. Jubilees has a warning against using the moon. Whats going on?

So I have a few questions I'd like answered in this order :

1.) Which is the correct method for dating feasts? Moon as prescribed in Psalms or Jubilee Sun Calendar? Why?

2.) If your answer to the first question is the Solar Jubilee calendar, then how do you reconcile that to the fact Genesis 1 says that both the sun and moon are to be used, yet Book of jubilees warns against using the moon. What therefore is the use of the moon to the Jubilee/Enoch calendar system?

3.) I have seen no direct command for calendar intercalation in the Tanakh (no not even in Ezekiel). Is there a concrete, solid method for the 1 and a quarter day discrepancy that exists for the Jubilee calendar? Or is this 365 and a quarter day just some made up science hogwash, and the year is truly a perfect 364 cycle as stated in the book of Jubilees?

Many thanks in advance. I await some closure on this puzzle I've had for so long.

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I'm not saying I don't understand, I'm saying I disagree. That's all, a simple disagreement.

And I'm not even necessarily stating that I disagree with Enoch directly, rather, that I disagree with your interpretation of it.

It's really not a big deal to me, I'm just not going to accept a teaching that I can blatantly see to be incorrect.

sevynn leverette said:
wow man made teaching over Scripture, what a new concept??????

Enoch is wrong because i don't understand, Daniel 7:25 man will err and change the times;

Take heed what you hear: with what measure your mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

but the reason of man, the Greek philosophy on man made mete of measure, the Ruach is what i believe, because man could not understand Enoch and choose a calendar by their own mete so be it, but for me i will continue to pray, meditate on the Scriptures untill 364 day calendar is revealed.

you can continue to delve into man, common sense, logic, that is your choice

Shalom
Anaiah, I could title this post, Evidence that demands a verdict.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
not again...

okay, the only possibilities are the following:

1. 364 "enoch" days are equal to 365.25 gregorian days.

2. 364 "enoch" days equals the same as 364 gregorian days, with no intercalation. Eventually, the beginning of the year with the Enoch Calendar will be in December, but this is still to be followed.

3. 364 "enoch" days equal the same as 364 greogiran days with intercalation. You add a week whenever necessary. It keeps in sync with the Gregorian Calendar.

4. Something else. please explain.

these are the only 4 options, so please choose one and if number 4, explain how this something else works, Sevynn.
the gregorian calendar is mathematical based on 19000 years divided, so no i will not compare Enoch to the Gregorian calendar, obviously you have not studied it enough to know, 365.24298

The Enoch calendar is based on the Sun riseing at the same location year after year in the same time, the only thing that changes each year is the unit of measurement; gregorian calendar a mathematical 19000 year equation, research it for yourself.

Enoch equals 364 days base on 52 weeks seven days in a week, no extra days reckon in counting that is Scripture, that is what the Ruach placed in Enoch to write,

any other calculation is a man made doctrine, logic, observation,

Shalom
Anaiah, I think he just picked number 2..

2. 364 "enoch" days equals the same as 364 gregorian days, with no intercalation. Eventually, the beginning of the year with the Enoch Calendar will be in December, but this is still to be followed.

So his calendar will be starting mid winter in a few years... But oh well!

sevynn leverette said:
the gregorian calendar is mathematical based on 19000 years divided, so no i will not compare Enoch to the Gregorian calendar, obviously you have not studied it enough to know, 365.24298

The Enoch calendar is based on the Sun riseing at the same location year after year in the same time, the only thing that changes each year is the unit of measurement; gregorian calendar a mathematical 19000 year equation, research it for yourself.

Enoch equals 364 days base on 52 weeks seven days in a week, no extra days reckon in counting that is Scripture, that is what the Ruach placed in Enoch to write,

any other calculation is a man made doctrine, logic, observation,

Shalom
Jesse do not take your personal observations to heart, at one point you also rejected Torah, Shabbat, Tzitzit, etc.. and you had heart felt reservations about those, just because each day you attack a persons character because they do not agree that is how you express yourself.

No logic, common sense, will change that Enoch says 364, if you can't see you are altering this FACT, by using another method of calculation and you think it is me,?????


Shabbat Shalom

J. Jury said:
Anaiah, I could title this post, Evidence that demands a verdict.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
not again...

okay, the only possibilities are the following:

1. 364 "enoch" days are equal to 365.25 gregorian days.

2. 364 "enoch" days equals the same as 364 gregorian days, with no intercalation. Eventually, the beginning of the year with the Enoch Calendar will be in December, but this is still to be followed.

3. 364 "enoch" days equal the same as 364 greogiran days with intercalation. You add a week whenever necessary. It keeps in sync with the Gregorian Calendar.

4. Something else. please explain.

these are the only 4 options, so please choose one and if number 4, explain how this something else works, Sevynn.
At one point I had put forth that Enoch leaves some room for intercalation, and you rejected this, based on your reading of Enoch... or Jubilees... or whatever.

As Anaiah had suggested in a previous post, 364 days is the course of the year, but some degree of intercalation is required to align with the agricultural year (he and I agree that it should be a leap week when the year begins prior than the equinox/equilux), and this intercalated week need not be counted in the 364. Of course, Jubilees doesn't leave much room for this, but I believe Enoch does.

The calendar is not plainly spelled out in the Torah, so all interpretations of it are equally subjective (enoch, jubilees, secular, gregorian, pagan, julian, jewish, karaite, etc), though some are better than others.

Like I said, it's really not a big deal to me that we disagree. It is my sincere opinion that we are both honestly seeking the truth... I just disagree with your interpretation thereof.

sevynn leverette said:
Jesse do not take your personal observations to heart, at one point you also rejected Torah, Shabbat, Tzitzit, etc.. and you had heart felt reservations about those, just because each day you attack a persons character because they do not agree that is how you express yourself.
No logic, common sense, will change that Enoch says 364, if you can't see you are altering this FACT, by using another method of calculation and you think it is me,?????

Shabbat Shalom

J. Jury said:
Anaiah, I could title this post, Evidence that demands a verdict.

Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
not again...

okay, the only possibilities are the following:

1. 364 "enoch" days are equal to 365.25 gregorian days.

2. 364 "enoch" days equals the same as 364 gregorian days, with no intercalation. Eventually, the beginning of the year with the Enoch Calendar will be in December, but this is still to be followed.

3. 364 "enoch" days equal the same as 364 greogiran days with intercalation. You add a week whenever necessary. It keeps in sync with the Gregorian Calendar.

4. Something else. please explain.

these are the only 4 options, so please choose one and if number 4, explain how this something else works, Sevynn.
i will continue to study this topic as an origin of 364 days, and the reject every calendar that is presently in use, with proper study you will see the closest calendar was the Julian calendar excluding intercalary days, but any comments about logic, personal observation with evidence is just another opinion, all Scripture must be utilized to understand Enoch.

Shalom
Well... Good for you. Mazel tov. Do it! :-)

sevynn leverette said:
i will continue to study this topic as an origin of 364 days, and the reject every calendar that is presently in use, with proper study you will see the closest calendar was the Julian calendar excluding intercalary days, but any comments about logic, personal observation with evidence is just another opinion, all Scripture must be utilized to understand Enoch.
Shalom
i have been doing it as you already know???

Shalom

J. Jury said:
Well... Good for you. Mazel tov. Do it! :-)

sevynn leverette said:
i will continue to study this topic as an origin of 364 days, and the reject every calendar that is presently in use, with proper study you will see the closest calendar was the Julian calendar excluding intercalary days, but any comments about logic, personal observation with evidence is just another opinion, all Scripture must be utilized to understand Enoch.
Shalom
I just hadn't heard anything on it for a while. Glad to hear you're still studying, though.

sevynn leverette said:
i have been doing it as you already know???

Shalom

J. Jury said:
Well... Good for you. Mazel tov. Do it! :-)

sevynn leverette said:
i will continue to study this topic as an origin of 364 days, and the reject every calendar that is presently in use, with proper study you will see the closest calendar was the Julian calendar excluding intercalary days, but any comments about logic, personal observation with evidence is just another opinion, all Scripture must be utilized to understand Enoch.
Shalom
as you know i would like to create a team to check out every aspect, not our own beliefs, it is critical, to Yisrael as a nation, but time will reveal all things, i believe that the only way to the truth is to let scripture interpret scripture...

Shalom
1.) Which is the correct method for dating feasts? Moon as prescribed in Psalms or Jubilee Sun Calendar? Why?

2.) If your answer to the first question is the Solar Jubilee calendar, then how do you reconcile that to the fact Genesis 1 says that both the sun and moon are to be used, yet Book of jubilees warns against using the moon. What therefore is the use of the moon to the Jubilee/Enoch calendar system?


My two cents:
1 -- Lunisolar; the classic Hebrew calendar.
2 -- Genesis and Psalms obviously use the moon for chronological reference points, as should we.

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