Nazarene Space

I just wanted to get some opinions regarding a situation I have.

 

A christian lady that I know has her birthday coming up. Other christian friends are planning a little lunch party for her. They have invited me to play some worship songs during lunch (I play the guitar). However, this lunch party is going to be on a Sabbath. If I accept to play at this party, will that be considered a violation of the Sabbath? On the one hand, I'll only be playing worship songs, and for free, so maybe it wont be a violation since I'm not actually "working." But on the other hand, we are commanded to not do "our own pleasure" on the Sabbath.

 

What are your thoughts? Thanks.

 

Rudy Dominguez.

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beryl , I don't think anyone is trying to change your mind in regards to halacha ,

 
--i was merely replying above who said that i changed my mind.
 

 

however I have a question . As NJ's how different is our walk ?

 
--the difference between honoring the authority of the Elders and not
 

 
If the OJ's see us as lower than they , I am not saing you do .

 
--i have not yet heard that an OJ says the NJ is "lower" or something. if there be anything like expression to qualify in the negative remark i (personally) suppose that  most of my brethren don't understand the Messiah the way in our messianic way --and between the two i came to know that the NJ has better understanding in what-ness of messianic office is than those in my camp the OJ. in my rabbinic camp it is funny to see that our (taught) messiah is so helplessly imprisoned within the cell of rabbi's poor "expectations" (bwa ha ha ha ! ) while here in the NJs i find Messiah Yeshua to be one who can be read all over tanakh, talmud and midrashim. but my difference to them does not extend in points halacha because as Jews we are all subjected to it the way Kefa and Yaakov were. as to messiah it is really funny in there you can read from our counter missionizing.
 

 

I do know some who feel that way, even here on NS.

 
--don't bother your self with those kind of persons. attend to your own quest for the kingdom. every Jew (OJ) i mean this, is personally answerable to G-d and to Him alone as it is written "I shall require it of him" (Deut. 18:19).
 

 

How can the Kingdom ever be united when people feel and think he/she is above others ?

 
--the thinking that one is above others did not come from the East: it came from the West and Hitler is the Prophet. the unification of the Kingdom of Israel must surely come but it is not within the "power" of men to forge in their own time. only the Father in heaven through His Spirit. (Acts 1:7; Gen 1:2) for each time G-d wanted to form and reform the earth He always sends His Spirit into it from the beginning.
 
--our business is to witness in our reformed halachic life what salvation by Messiah has brought us.
 
goodluck bro.
 

 



grouch said:

beryl , I don't think anyone is trying to change your mind in regards to halacha , however I have a question . As NJ's how different is our walk ? If the OJ's see us as lower than they , I am not saing you do . I do know some who feel that way, even here on NS .How can the Kingdom ever be united when people feel and think he/she is above others ?



beryl etanah said:

 

no man can change my view. don't ever think.

I know NJ's stance on this issue. Are you sure you do?

 

i am not an NJ like you think you are. i am an OJ. we have different halacha.

 

sorry.

 

 

Christian what i mean, allow me to qualify, is no man "here" in this NS place.

you are truly quick to note down my feminine limitations. congratulations.

 

Solomon Avar said:

no man can change my view. don't ever think.


Hmmm... is this a riddle ?  Are you insinuating a woman might alter your perceptions ??? ;p


beryl etanah said:

 

no man can change my view. don't ever think.

I know NJ's stance on this issue. Are you sure you do?

 

i am not an NJ like you think you are. i am an OJ. we have different halacha.

 

sorry.

 

The "command" to "not do thine own pleasure" on Shabbat is, in my humble opinion, a mistranslation. Isaiah 58:13 is worded in such a way to make translation into English impossible in a literal sense. If we read only the Hebrew:
אם תשיב משבת רגלך עשות חפציך ביום קדשי וקראת לשבת ענג לקדוש יהוה מכבד וכבדתו מעשות דרכיך ממצוא חפצך ודבר דבר׃

אִם־תָּשִׁ֤יב מִשַּׁבָּת֙ רַגְלֶ֔ךָ עֲשֹׂ֥ות חֲפָצֶ֖יךָ בְּיֹ֣ום קָדְשִׁ֑י וְקָרָ֨אתָ לַשַּׁבָּ֜ת עֹ֗נֶג לִקְדֹ֤ושׁ יְהוָה֙ מְכֻבָּ֔ד וְכִבַּדְתֹּו֙ מֵעֲשֹׂ֣ות דְּרָכֶ֔יךָ מִמְּצֹ֥וא חֶפְצְךָ֖ וְדַבֵּ֥ר דָּבָֽר׃

Then we get: If you return to the Shabbat your foot, make your pleasure by day my Holy, and call the Shabbat a luxury, the Holy YHWH, to honor and honors, from making your ways, from finding your pleasure, and speaking speech...

This is of course a rough literal and is by no means a perfect translation. But notice how the Hebrew words for NO or NOT aren't anywhere in this verse. So why then do some translations insert words that aren't there? Because they are stupid? Because they want to impose their views on others by mistranslating the Bible? My thoughts on this verse are that YHWH is simply saying that we are to honor the Shabbat(and therefore honor Him). It is very simple and easy to understand. Adding words that aren't there(NO or NOT) creates a "grey area" and causes much dispute. The things which are forbidden on Shabbat are given in the Bible. Some would try to interpret this verse as saying that we are not allowed to "do our own pleasure" on Shabbat. This makes no sense, of course. What exactly is meant by "our own pleasure"? That is why Rudy posted this question in the first place. He is confused because of a bad translation of this verse. We honor the Shabbat by not working, and by having a Holy convocation(church). If we were not allowed to "speak our own words" then does that mean we are not allowed to speak on the Shabbat unless we are quoting Scripture or praying? Do you see how absurd this is getting? If we can't "do our own pleasure" does that mean we can't have fun on the Shabbat? If a little child bounces a ball on Shabbat must we take it away from them and say "You can't play on Shabbat". So then in effect we are grounding or punishing our children every Shabbat. This causes them to hate the Shabbat. I see this in children and adults in my congregation. We are commanded to make the Sabbath a delight, and literally to have fun on the Sabbath, but we must also honor the Sabbath. I think it is just fine to celebrate birthdays, have weddings, and other such things on Shabbat. But we must honor YHWH by putting Him first. Prayer, worship, Bible study, and church should come before birthdays and other things on Shabbat. I'd also like to say that birthdays are not pagan. That is a lie spread by the JW's. Birthdays go all the way back to ancient times, long before paganism even existed.

Perhaps this reply is a bit late but you might simply send a card and later explain that you could not attend such event on Shabbat. If she is truly your friend she will understand and not be offended. Psalm 119:165

You have two options. Consider each. In each circumstance, to whom will the glory go?

 

it is very clear: abide ye on shabbat.

 

any pleading for exception must satisfy the standard: IS IT TRULY NECESSARY IN THIS CASE TO LEAVE? WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO ONE'S WELFARE IF NOT? AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO OTHERS IF NOT? certainly it is not a case of a lamb that fell into the pit on the shabbat. nor is it a case when a withered hand sought healing on the shabbat. observe the proper rules of interpreting the law and the nt. legal interpretation is not a picnic where one pleases himself ad libitum. (at least from what i learned. he he )

 

Mikha El said:

Beryl,

understand this...

There's a difference between playing music for our own enjoyment and playing it as a tool in ministry and possibly experiencing "joy" while doing so. Again, there's no torah violation in what Rudy is contemplating so long as his motive is in reaching others. If you feel there is violation then please give your explanation of the multiple accounts we see in the writings of the Nazarenes of "leaving their dwelling" and subsequently Yeshua condoning the sins in your view. 



beryl etanah said:

 

rachel, understand this:

before you enjoy, אם תשיב משבת רגלך עשות חפצך ביום קדשי וקראת לשבת ענג לקדוש יהוה מכבד וכבדתו מעשות דרכיך ממצוא חפצך ודבר דבר

 

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