Sacred Names vs. non-Sacred Names Discussion

[James Trimm]

The dialog of this discussion has been posted here for any who wish to continue the discussion:

Mark Posted:
The use of pagan and blasphemous titles and names
I am shocked to see some here who refuse to rid themselves of pagan ways, yet say they follow the Hebrew faith! Do you not know that the words g-d, l-rd,and j-sus was the start of corruption of the one true Faith? Deeply offensive to our Abba and Elohim, and to all those who follow Yahweh. If this continues, and those people do not reword their quotes from Scripture and their comments and/or blogs, this will be the third site I must leave. This is COMMANDED of all who follow Yahweh and Yahshua. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Shalom to all my brothers and sisters.

p.s.... the site operator should request this as well, or ban these people. A good suggestion would be a disclaimer upon joining, that these practices will not be tollerated. Yahshua will not tollerate them on Judgement Day, rest assured.

Shawn Replied:
Some people are a light to the nations. They set out a candle and they take in the lost. They slowly, kindly, and patiently work with and help elevate other souls in conjunction with their own. This method of sharing light positively effects hundreds or thousands of souls over the course of many decades.

Other people however feel that to be a light means strapping on pounds of explosives and detonating in the middle of a crowded street. No doubt that produces quite a flash but no soul is elevated in the process. That level of harshness is counter productive.

It is one thing to kindly and lovingly teach people that they should CHOOSE a better path (including proper names)

It is another thing entirely to be a spiritual suicide bomber who blows up in everyone's face with all the harshness and malice of a terrorist. No doubt people who behave this way say "I'm just speaking the truth" but then again that's what a terrorist believe too.

Blessings to all.
PS Pride makes an easy target. This is how David defeated Galiath. Galaith's head was so big, how could David possibly miss?

Mark Replied:
Thank you Shawn for your Wisdom. What I am getting at, is that the first and easiset step towards salvation, is to rid yourselves of such names and titles. I don't believe in pulling punches. After all, this is indeed immortality we are striving for. Shalom brother.

James Trimm Replied:
First of all I am all for the use of Sacred Names. However establishing a sacred name halacha creates a few problems.

For example the word "God" comes from the name of a false deity who was called "Gawd". Baal Gawd (Lord of good fortune) was one of the titles of Baal. To my knowledge the English word "Lord" has no such pagan origin, and while it is a possible translation of the word/name "Ba'al" it can also be a translation of the Hebrew word(s) "Adon/Adonai".

I dislike the term "Jesus" and find it culturally offensive and it refers to the anti-nomian Gentile "Jesus" but the claims of a pagan origin of this name have been discredited. Some have tried to tie it to Zeus (Je-Zeus) but the problem is that the only thing that the words "Jesus" and "Zeus" in the Greek is the "-us" ending common to most names.

And then there is another issue. In the original Hebrew of Jer. 31:32 has YHWH saying "I was a husband (Ba'al) to them" the Hebrew word "Ba'al" is a Hebrew word meaning "husband, master, lord" but it had also come to be used as the name of a pagan deity. It can be argued from Jer. 31:32 that while it is not prefered, it might be permitted to use a word as a title for YHWH even if that word was also be the name of a pagan deity. Thus if Jeremiah can quote YHWH as calling himself "Ba'al" then can we truly forbid the the term "God"? I very rarely use the word "God" today, but I was not so strict ten years ago when I recorded some great teachings before a live audience. It is no longer so easy to make such recordings, should I dispose of the old ones, even though they teach some profound things? Especially in light of the use of Ba'al in reference to YHWH in Jer. 31:32.

Mark Wrote:
The very fact that King Constantine, in 400 ad, rewrote these names into Scripture and falsified his Word, is enough proof for me. The origins of j-sus are greek. Does it make sense to use greek terminology?. Also christ comes from christos, another greek word. Yes I knew about g-d = gawd, but thank you anyway. I will always believe in using Hebrew names for our Abba and Elohim. These "other names" have questionable origins at best, so I refuse to use them. There is no Hebraic flavour in them and as such are offensive. Some are in their comfort zone, but comfort can lead to s.a.TAN. As for l-rd...it is also used for the l-rd of darkness. This fact alone suggests it as unholy and NOT set-apart, so why the confusion?. Do not speak of the the Almighty with the same words used for s.a.TAN. AS Yahweh said,"in the end times, my name shall be known again, and it is YHWH". Thank you for your comment James. Shalom

P.S. You should edit your teachings and omit the bad words, but do not discard the teachings.

Rick Replied:
When I came to the Messianic movement, I was told a Hundred different ways to say Yah's name. And none of the people spoke Hebrew, They were trying to tell me how to say our Creator's name. They were just like everyone else doing their best to follow Torah. After all this time,,,, since there was no recording of how to say the name. I am fine with Father , Abba , YHWH , Adonai HaShem .
And if I am speaking with a person and they say G-d or L-rd , I don't go out of my way to correct them . That is not my job !
The only word that does get to me is Jesus. ( I will try and correct with Yeshua ). There is a whole great big world of people who serve our Father that do not say his name . The heart is where our Father looks. Even on this site here you can find people who say the Name different , each feels he or she is right , Not for me to judge . I got enough to worry about. There's a great little verse I read in Matthew 7:1 that I remind myself of all the time, and the guy saying it was Jesus, I don't agree with that name , But I sure got his point. R.T.

David Markus wrote:
Ameyn Rick! well said.

James Trimm Replied:
Mark,

By your standards YHWH himself should not have referred to Himself with the title BAAL in Jer. 31:32.

Did YHWH sin in referring to himself with a title that was also the name of a false god?

BTW it is not feasible to edit that much audio to replace single words commonly used.


James Trimm Wrote:
BTW the titles "El" and "Eloah" were also names of false gods. The gods Adonis and Odin were variations of "Adon/Adonai" and even the name YAHWEH was used in various forms as the names of false gods as well (such as Io).

Don't get me wrong, I am all for the use of the true Hebrew names and discourage the use English titles, especially those which were names of pagan gods (or to which anti-nomian theology has been strongly attached).

But I do not believe that we should disfellowship those who use these titles so long as they do not forbid the use of the true Name and Hebrew titles and as long as they do not alter the Scriptures by substituting, and as long as they do not abstain from using the name altogether themselves.

Bat Teshuvah Said:
According to your standards Mark, it is blasphemous to be subscribed to NazareneSpace, because the word 'Nazarene' can be understood as a pagan name for the branch Tammuz. In fact, your Yahushua can't be the true branch, as you'd be calling our Saviour 'Tammuz'.

James Trimm:
And for those that think that a specific pronounciation of the Name is a point of salvation, I must ask if you think that deaf mutes are simply fuel for the fire of Hell?

Mark Said:
Thank you for the kind reply. I think I may have been misunderstood. I am not here to squabble or offend anyone. I have had many replies to this blog. My point was this. If some still use the terms g-d, l-rd, ans j-sus, what else have they comprimised in the Faith? Surely I hope they do not celebrate the pagan holidays. The pronounciations are not important, as long as of Hebrew origin, but greek paganism is. Shalom from the heart, and all His blessings to you, brother and sister.

Mark:
I will not be participating in petty squabbling on this site anymore. This is happening here, just like in Christianity, and Catholocism. Regardless, most believers I know find them offensive, as they should. He has one true name, pronounce it how you like, and that name is YHWH. I will cease to post anymore comments on this site, and/or blogs. It is falling on deaf ears. I have much respect of your knowledge James, and was not trying to offend you or anyone else. For that I am truly sorry and humbled. But I find these chats counterproductive. My time would be more wisely spent following His Word, and His Scripture. I have seen a reply of 1 who is pridefull that he was backed up on his viewpoint. This is not what YHWH wants or expects of any who follow Him. Like another here who shall remain anonymous, my intentions were pure, but was called a few things between the lines, this is why this person refuses to enter into these discussions. We are all at different levels of understanding. Some read YHWH's words for years, but never pass level one interpretation...the literal. No more foolishness will I enter into. Shalom

Rick:
Mark, no offense from my view. What a person does is not in my control . To learn and study is. Welcome to Nazaren Space . R.T.

Mark:
I never said that a particular pronounciation of His name was important. I said what I believe His name is. James, It is you who entered the long winded pronounciation of His name...not I. Like I said, some are getting their backs up in the air, and for what?! No more petty squabbling will I be a part of. No more comments or blogs from me. Case Closed Shalom

James Trimm:
Iron sharpens iron: so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend.
Prov. 27:17

Mark:
Linguistic arguements are not fruitfull. The name is YHWH. No more will I communicate with those who refuse to see the error of their ways. Thank you. It is time to start my own site, where such blasphemies are not tollerated, and correction is answered with thanks, and not retribution. Shalom and bye

James Trimm:
Actually RIck had mentioned running into the pronounciation issue and I was responding to that.

If everyone here agrees on everything all of the time, we are not going to have much discussion, and we are not going to learn much.

You seem to ignore my point and instead want to go create a new site where it can simply be ignored.

You never responded to my point about YHWH referring to himself with the title BAAL in Jer 31. You said "linguistic arguments are not fruitful" but ALL debates aboutr names and titles are "linguistinc" and you were the one who brought it up.

If it is not a point of fellowship then how are you goinhg to create a group where other names and titkes are not allowed? by censoring others or by banning them? And in doing so are you not MAKING it a point of fellowship?

By leaving here are you not doing the same?

Mark:
Comprimise is the first step towards s.a.TAN. We are supposed to rebuke with kindness and correct those in error. That is all I have tried to do. "for the blind, refuse to see" Shalom

James Trimm:
You seem to be saying that your view must be right, that you do not need to defend or prove your claims, that we must accept them without such, and that we should be disfellowshipped from you if we dont agree with you.

It is as if you are asking us to accept you as the sovereign of the universe.


If you can prove from the Scriptures that use titles for YHWH that are also the names of pagan gods should be a point of fellowship then I will accept it, but I see no proof, only your pwersonal decree. You give no response to the facts presented, and ask us to accept your decree in their place.

The wonderful thing about Nazarene Space is that within the bounds of "points of fellowship" you are free to disagree here.

Mark Best Wrote:
I have received an e-mail from a true believer who does not make excuses for correction of their errors. No pagan names are tollerated there. It is YHWH telling you that you are in error, not I. No more wating my time with comprimisers andthose who wish to go only part way into the Faith. This site is indeed tainted with the spirit of s.a.TAN bye till you get your act together

James Trimm:
The point of Nazarene Space is that we are an open forum for discussion and for iron to sharpen iron.

We are not religious overlords who lay down decrees and ban everyone who disagrees us.

Moreover, when I make an argument, I do so, I formulate an argument by applying fixed rules of understanding (Hermeneutics) including historical cultural information to the text of Scripture and lay out the logic of my understanding.

I do not simply ignore all arguments that disagree with a preconceived conclusion and lay out a decree that I epect all others to accept because I said so.

But that is just the way I do things... and after all I think rain is wet, so who am I to say?

And when we make Sacred Name arguments we need to make sure that they are factually accurate... otherwise we may discredit the Sacred Name argument in general. For example you said:

"The very fact that King Constantine, in 400 ad, rewrote these names into Scripture and falsified his Word, is enough proof for me."

Constantine did not write anything in 400 AD because he died in 337 AD.

The names you mentioned were used in Greek and Latin versions of the Scriptures that long predate Constantine. In fact the LXX uses THEOS and KURIOS long before the first century. Our earliest fragments of the Greek NT date to the Second Century and the same can be said for the earliest Latin texts (Which use Latin terms). The earliest English texts, of course, came centuries after his death.

Mark Best:
That information is private sir. You seem to want to prove you are right, when clearly from a Scriptural point of view, you are not. No humilty there. To hide behind linguistics to prove a point is foolish at best. Please stop harrassing me. I tried, as commanded to correct those in grave error, and know have washed my hands of this, as commanded. Part way into the Faith is no way for me, or any true believer. I said I am staying far away from false doctrine. It is easy to corrupt His word with bible quotes, but a serious sin. I came for Truth, not for paganism. I will not lay down with sinners, if they refuse to repent their transgressions. I will not reply to any more of your or any of your so called believers emails. I have cleansed myself with YHWH's grace. Stop trying to prove a point, that is so wrong to prove in the first place. Squabbles on false doctrine upkeeping is not for I. Shalom

James Trimm:
Like most others here, I simply seek the truth of Scripture not the decrees of individuals.

You are welcome to participate here. In case you have not noticed, you are welcome to disagree with me or others here. And you will note your freedom to post your view. However, posting your view as a mere decree will not "cut-it" on this level of a discussion group. Participants here will expect you to apply Scripture in a logical manner to establish your points, and to respond to Scriptural challenges in a real way, rather than by simply insisting that the other side is wrong. You may find that this process of dialog (iron sharpening iron) edifies the body much more that simply leaving the group and creating a new one where your views cannot be questioned, and where all that disagree with you are simply banned rather than responded to.

Mark:
An angry one when exposed eh?

James Trimm:
No, actually I am actually not angry at all. That is the beauty of it. :-)

So feel free to disagree here, but if you expect to be taken seriously, you are going to have to actually engage in a meaningful way, rather than simply decree that you are right.

Mark:
You obviously insist on the last word, so next e-mail you can have that last say, you who are puffed up with pride.

David Markus:
I see no ones reply to you coming across as puffed up with pride. Try going back and having a second look, I don't think you are understanding the point that all of us are trying to make. Yesterday, you left a few posts that flat out say we should disfellowship people who are not in agreement with you, you also left me a message stating your belief in what you think is the sacred name.

You said: I believe it is Yahweh thankyou Shalom

I said; If you disagree about how the true name is pronounced and or spelled that is OK. I encourage you to research further. A word of advice to you though, sometimes coming into a situation(this site) with guns blazing is not the best tactic. Not saying I disagree with your posts, All on this site are at different levels of observance and knowledge, most on here are working towards that knowledge. Let there not be divisions among us.

YehWeh bless

You said: Thank you for the kind comments Dud. I have duly noted that my approach may be interpreted as harsh. I am zealous over Zion. Shalom brother and all the best..

so......seeing the tone of your last message to me, may we have a discussion about the sacred name or other topics now, instead of pointing our finger at someone declaring that someone is arrogant or prideful, to be honest that is all I've seen from you since you arrived.

YehWeh bless, and shalom.


Rick:
Mark, what about the Levite's ? Are they not chosen by YHWH for all their generations ? And if they don't conform to your view are they now tossed out ? And I must dis-agree with you !! this is not an evil site !!! If one takes the time to listen, one can learn a great deal from here . It might not line up with your standards, But evil ? I don't think so . R.T.

Sevynn Leverette:
Mark, i too at one point stood in your shoes, and also believed that the use of any title was against YEWE, however with time and maturity, we all understand that ALL that call on the Name of YEWE will be saved. I also wanted to start a site where gawd was not used, and as parables are revealed to us now and in the future this will happen with maturity. We are all made perfect, or fashioned and formed into the mirror image of YeweShua

YeweShua increased in wisdom and stature, and grew in favor with YEWE and mankind!

YEWE was pleased to see Him crushed!

Those that love DISCIPLINE love KNOWLEDGE, those that don't are .................stupid!

As YEWE allows into the heart of mankind and leads them, as with the parable of wheat and tares, it is the Messegers who do the harvesting NOT, NOT men, as we attest here by arguing a point in which we all agree, His Name is YEWE, IEUE, YHWH, EUEI, HWHY, EWEY, and He comes in His Fathers Name YeweShua, Yahshuah, Yeshua, Yahushua.

Selah and Shalom may you be lead by the Ruach haQadesh

Mark Best:
It took Yahweh one day to tell me to leave this tainted site. My new Messianic site does not make excuses, will not accept or tolerate pagan practices, and is not puffed up with pride, trying to prove they are right! I was astonished at the foolish bickering over what is widely known to be correct. One said he was not angry, but was sending me e-mails every 2 minutes or so. He was, and is a liar. Yahweh has seen the actions and hearts of those here who support mocking his true name. Shame on you all. Don't bother replying to this, as in His eyes, you lost before you even started. Goodbye and Shalom although you wronged Him and I. Please omit me from your mailing lists and do what you will with my page.

[J. Jury]

Oh my goodness. Can someone really expect to be able to say "This is it! I'm leaving!" multiple times, yet still be taken seriously? It reminds me of those "We're going out of business!" ads you see on Friday, then business as usual continues on Monday. Being the "boy who cried wolf" never pays off.

[Marko Rei deKol]

Wow!

I for one do not see pounding new people to the faith over the head with the do this or die mentality. Seriously that can bring condemnation upon yourself for making the little ones stumble. The name written as YHWH or IEUE simply leaves it to however we each feel convicted it is pronounced (Neutral).

As for Rabbi Trimm on -ba'al- that is very good point and this is why we follow YHWH's ways on faith and do not get stranded in these unending name battles. Thank you for showing that rabbi.

[Christian]

There is such a thing a linguistic relativity, I'm sure there's a wikipedia article about it, take a look at it.
The basic theory is that certain languages, express certain things - the English language ultimately is part of an entire concept and lifestyle, whereas Hebrew language is part of certain culture, concept and lifestyle.
We must remember that the Hebrew we have today is also a diluted version of truth, just like everything is - but as of now it is the most correct language and spiritually meaningful linguistic expression-form we have.
Using English is in itself a compromise with truthful expression that we are forced to make, much as we are forced to live in an atheist pagan world.
Until the total establishing of the Kingdom Malkuth, we have to make compromises.

[Devan Smiralia]

There is biblical evidence against pronouncing the name of HaShem. Also: while G-d and L-rd may have pagan origions, they are translations of Hebrew words into another language - therefore, the meaning atributed to them is that of the origional Hebrew word. If you are talking to people who are not Jewish, and are always saying "Eyloyhiym", or "Adonoy" instead of G-d and L-rd, they won't know what you are talking about. Does it really matter as much what we call Him, as long as our Halakha is proper?

[James Trimm]

One major distinction between Nazarene Judaism and mainline Judaism of the first century was in regard to their usage of the name of YHWH. While mainline Judaism had limited and in some cases even banned the use of the name of YHWH, Nazarenes were at time persecuted for not participating in this ban.

Banning the Name

Although use of the Name of YHWH was clearly commonplace in Tanak times (Old Testament times), by the first century the Name was used only in the Temple. Even whe reading the Scriptures, mainline Judaism used euphemisms or substitutions instead of pronouncing the name (j.Meg. 71d). According to the Talmud, after the time of Simon the Just (a contemporary of Alexander the Great) the priest stopped using the Name in the blessings (b.Yoma 49b). The ban on the name however, did not continue in this form. Later in the Second Temple era the name was used, but only in the Temple as the Mishnah states:

…In the sanctuary one says the Name as it is written
but in the provinces, with a euphemism….
(m.Sotah 7:6; b.Sotah 38b; m.Tamid 7:2)

In fact the name was used in the Temple even in giving greetings, as the Mishnah states:

[speaking of behavior on the Temple grounds]
And they ordained that an individual should greet his fellow
with [God’s] name, in accordance with what is said, "And
behold Boaz came from Bethlehem; and he said to the
reapers, ‘YHWH be with you!’ And they answered, ‘YHWH
bless you"
(Ruth 2:4)
(m.Ber. 9:5)

The first century Jewish historian Josephus mentions the ban on using the name of YHWH. Josephus, writing on the events of Exodus 3, writes:

…Whereupon God declared to him [Moses] his holy Name,
which had never been discovered to men before;
concerning which it is not lawful for me to say anymore….
(Josephus; Antiquities 2:12:4)

This ban on speaking the name of YHWH seems to have been almost universal by the first century. Even the nonconformists of the Qumran community (generally held to be Essenes) held to the ban. The Manual of Discipline states:

Anyone who speaks aloud the M[ost] Holy Name of God, [whether in…]
or in cursing or as a blurt in time of trial or for any other reason, or while
he is reading a book or praying, is to be expelled, never again to return
to the society of the Yahad.
(1QS Col. 6 line 27b - Col. 7 line 2a)

After the destruction of the Temple in 70 C.E. Pharisaic Judaism banned use of the Name of YHWH altogether. The new halacha was that the name was "to be hidden" (b.Pes. 50a) and "to be kept secret" (b.Kidd. 71a).

That the practice of using euphemisms in place of the Name of YHWH began at a very early date, long before the first century, is made clear from three important sources: the Septuagint, the Psalms and the Book of Daniel.

The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Tanak which was made around 250 B.C.E.. There is much debate as to whether the Septuagint originally contained the name of YHWH or simply the euphemisms for the Name. However the Septuagint translators paraphrased Lev. 24:16 (15 in Jewish copies) in such a way as to make it clear that the ban on the name existed by the time the Septuagint was translated. The Hebrew text of Lev. 24:16 reads (in English):

And whoever blasphemes the name of YHWH
shall surely be put to death…
(Lev. 24:16 from the Hebrew)

However the Septuagint translators paraphrased the text to mean:

And he that names the name of the Lord,
Let him die the death…
(Lev. 24:16 LXX)

This paraphrase makes it clear that the ban on the name existed at the time the Septuagint was translated.

Further evidence that the ban in the name was very early can be found by comparing Psalms 14 and 53. These two Psalms are almost identical except that YHWH in verses 2, 4, 6 and 7 of Psalm 14 has been changed to ELOHIM (God) in Ps. 53. This is an important piece of evidence which tells us many things:

1. The practice of using euphemisms in place of the name of YHWH predates the

editing and redaction of the Book of Psalms.
2. At the time that the book of Psalms was edited the practice of substitution existed
but was not universal, since the name is used in most of the Psalms including
Psalm 53’s twin Psalm 14.

Final evidence that the ban on the use of the name of YHWH is much older than the first century is found in the Aramaic sections of Daniel. Although the name appears in the Hebrew portions of Daniel it is conspicuously missing from the larger, Aramaic portion of the book. This tells us that by the time that Daniel was written it was the custom of at least some, not to use the name in another language besides Hebrew.

Not only did mainline Judaism read substitutions such as "Elohim" and "Adonai" when they came to YHWH in reading the Tanak, the ancient scribes of the Tanak actually substituted in many places "Adonai" for YHWH in the text itself. These in many translations are printed as "Lord". The official list given in the Massorah (107:15 Gingsburg edition) contain the 134 instances as follows:

Gen. 18:3,27,30,32; 19:18; 20:4 Ex. 4:10,13; 5:22,; 15:17; 34:9,9 Num. 14:17 Josh. 7:8 Judg. 6:15; 13:8 1Kings 3:10,15; 22:6 2Kings 7:6; 19:23 Isa. 3:17,18; 4:4; 6:1,8,11; 7:14,20; 8:7; 9:8,17; 10:12; 11:11; 21:6,8,16; 28:2; 29:13; 30:20; 37:24; 38:14,16; 49:14 Ezek. 18:25,29; 21:13; 33:17,29 Amos 5:16; 7:7,8; 9:1 Zech. 9:4 Mic. 1:2 Mal. 1:12,14 Ps. 2.4; 16:2; 22:19,30; 30:8; 35:3,17,22; 37:12; 38:9,15,22; 39:7; 40:17; 44:23; 51:15; 54:4; 55:9; 57:9; 59:11; 62:12; 66:18; 68:11,17,19,22,26,32; 73:20; 77:2,7; 78:65; 79:12; 86:3,4,5,8,9,12,15; 89:49,50; 90:1,17; 110:5; 130:2,3,6 Dan.1:2; 9:3,4,7,9,15,16,17,19,19,19 Lam. 1:14,15,15; 2:1,2,5,7,18,19,20; 3:31,36,37,58 Ezra 10:3 Neh.1:11; 4:14 Job 28:28.

(NOTE: Where verses are written twice or more, such as "Ex. 34:99" means there it has been changed 2 times within the same verse.)

WHY THE BAN?

Those who enacted the ban on the use of the name in mainline Judaism did so out of extreme, though misguided, reverence for the name. The reasoning behind the ban was based on Ex. 20:7 which said in part "You shall not take the name of YHWH your God in vain" And Lev. 22:32 which says in part "and you shall not profane my holy name,". These two commandments, when brought together with the tradition recorded in the Mishnah: "…make a hedge about the Torah." (m.Avot 1:1) resulted in a custom of not pronouncing the name at all. Thus eliminating any chance of profaning the name or taking it in vain.



WAS THE BAN SCRIPTURAL?

While it is true that those who enacted the ban on the name had the best of intentions, it has been said "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." This certainly seems to have been the case with the ban on the Name of YHWH. In the Torah YHWH states:

…My Name shall be declared in all the earth.
(Ex. 9:16)

Thus the ban on use of the name conflicted directly with the Torah itself. There is a direct contradiction between the Rabbinical precept that the name should be "hidden" and "kept secret" (b.Pes. 50a; b.Kidd. 71a) and the Torah precept that the name should be "declared in all the earth." The Tenach speaks of apostates "which think to cause my people to forget my name" (Jer. 23:27). The precept of keeping the name secret also conflicts with other Tanak passages:

"My people shall know my name"
(Is. 52:6)

"And those who know your name will put their trust in you"
(Ps. 9:10)

"I will deliver him; I will set him on high, because he has known my name"
(Ps. 91:14)

"…a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear YHWH
and who meditate on His name."
(Mal. 3:16)

"Let them praise Your great and awesome name- He is holy."
(Ps. 99:3)

"My mouth shall speak the praise of YHWH, and all flesh shall bless
His holy name forever and ever."
(Ps. 145:21)

"Let them praise the name of YHWH…"
(Ps. 148:13)

Moreover Rabbinic Judaism has produced a tradition of reading euphemisms in place of YHWH when reading the Tenach (j.Meg. 71d) and even altered the text itself in places, changing YHWH to "adonai" (Massorah (107:15 Gingsburg edition) contain the 134 instances listed previously). This tradition also conflicts directly with the Torah itself which says:

"You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it…"
(Dt. 4:2)

"…you shall not add to it [the Torah] nor take away from it."
(Dt. 12:32)

DID THE NAZARENES PARTICIPATE IN THE BAN?

Could Jn. 17:6, 26 mean that Yeshua actually pronounced the name? The Toldot Yeshu, a hostile Rabbinic parady on the Gospel story records the following legend:

After King Jannaeus, his wife Helene ruled over all Israel. In the Temple was to be found the Foundation Stone on which were engraved the letters of God's Ineffable Name. Whoever learned the secret of the Name and its use would be able to do whatever he wished. Therefore, the Sages took measures so that no one should gain this knowledge. Lions of brass were bound to two iron pillars at the gate of the place of burnt offerings. Should anyone enter and learn the Name, when he left the lions would roar at him and immediately the valuable secret would be forgotten. Yeshu came and learned the letters of the Name; he wrote them upon the parchment which he placed in an open cut on his thigh and then drew the flesh over the parchment. As he left, the lions roared and he forgot the secret. But when he came to his house he reopened the cut in his flesh with a knife an lifted out the writing. Then he remembered and obtained the use of the letters. He gathered about himself three hundred and ten young men of Israel and accused those who spoke ill of his birth of being people who desired greatness and power for themselves. Yeshu proclaimed, "I am the Messiah; and concerning me Isaiah prophesied and said, 'Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.'" He quoted other messianic texts, insisting, "David my ancestor prophesied concerning me: 'The Lord said to me, thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee.'" The insurgents with him replied that if Yeshu was the Messiah he should give them a convincing sign. They therefore, brought to him a lame man, who had never walked. Yeshu spoke over the man the letters of the Ineffable Name, and the leper was healed. Thereupon, they worshipped him as the Messiah, Son of the Highest.

(A similar legend about Yeshua appears in b.Shab. 104b; b.San. 67a; t.Shab. 11:15; j.Shab. 13d)

Now Hugh Schonfield theorized in his book According to the Hebrews that Toldot Yeshu is a hostile parody on the Gospel according to the Hebrews. So while this legend sounds fantastic there may be some truth at its root.

Now another passage in Matthew might also lead us that direction. The passage is Mt. 26:59-65:

59 Now the chief priests, the elders, and all the council sought false testimony against
Yeshua to put Him to death,
60 but found none. Even though many false witnesses came forward, they found none. But at least two false witnesses came forward
61 and said, "This [one] said "I am able to destroy the Temple of God and to build it in three days."
62 And the High Priest arose and said to him, "Do you answer nothing? What do these men testify against you?"
63 But Yeshua kept silent. And the High Priest answered and said to him, "I adjure you by the living God that you tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God."
64 Yeshua said to him, "It is as you said, Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
65 Then the High Priest tore his clothes, saying "He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard his blasphemy!

Note the phrase TEMPLE OF GOD in verse 61. This phrase never appears in the Tenach which always has TEMPLE OF YHWH. Also in verse 64 THE POWER is a common euphemism for YHWH which should appear based on the fact that this verse combines Ps. 110:1 with Dan. 7:13 where YHWH does appear in Ps. 110:1. Could Yeshua have been being accused of blasphemy for having used the phrase "Temple of YHWH" could he have aggravated and confirmed the charge by citing the Ps. 110:1/Dan. 7:13 phrase with the name YHWH pronounced? The Mishnah sheds a great deal of light on the events of this trial. The Mishnah states:

He who blasphemes is liable only when he will have fully pronounced the Divine Name. Said R. Joshua ben Qorha, "on every day of the trial they examine the witnesses with a substitute name… once the trial is over, they would not put him to death with the euphemism, but they put everyone out and ask the most important of the witnesses, saying to him, "Say, what exactly did you hear?" And he says what he heard. And the judges stand on their feet and tear their clothing…
(m.San. 7:5)

Now from this passage of the Mishnah we learn many things about Yeshua’s trial. It was normal for the witness to use a euphemism in his testimony of what Yeshua said. We also know that a charge of blasphemy required that the offender had "fully pronounced the Divine Name." It is therefore clear that Yeshua had been pronouncing the name of YWHH. Normally at the end of the trial the room would have been emptied and the witness asked to repeat the "blasphemy" without the euphemism. However in this case Yeshua surprised eveyone. He wanted his statement heard by all so he repeated one of his "blasphemous" statements right there in the beit din. We know that he used the actual name and not "the Power" here because it was called "blasphemy" and would not have been unless Yeshua had "fully pronounced the Divine Name." That Yeshua also spoke the name of YHWH as part of his "blasphemy" was clear from the phrase "the High Priest tore his clothes" which agrees exactly with the halachah of the Mishnah "And the judges stand on their feet and tear their clothing…"

Ya’akov HaTzadik (James the Just), the leader of the Nazarenes after Yeshua’s death also recited the exact phrase Yeshua had recited "hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Dan. 7:13/Ps. 110:1) and was killed for having made the statement (Hegesippus as quoted by Eusebius Eccl. Hist. 2:23). Was he also killed for blaspheming the name of YHWH?

On yet another occasion certain Jews (probably pharisees) "made insurrection with one accord against Paul" (Acts. 18:12) a ringleader of the Nazarenes (Acts). They said that he "persuaded men to worship God contrary to the law." (Acts 18:13). Paul was later released with the Roman authorities saying "if it be a question of words and names and of your law, look you to it; for I will be no judge of such matters." (Acts 18:15) It seems then that Paul was accused of persuading men to worship God using the word/name of YHWH in contradiction to the ban on the name practiced by other sects of Judaism at the time.

HOW IS THE NAME PRONOUNCED?

The general belief at large is that the Divine Name is pronounce "JEHOVAH." Where did this pronunciation come from? Is it accurate?

A popular theory that has been circulating as of late has it that the name YHWH is actually four vowels IAUE. This theory is based largely on a statement made by Josephus in describing the headpiece of the High Priest. Josephus writes:

In which [headpiece] was engraved the sacred name. It consisted of four vowels.
(Wars. 5:5:7)

At first this statement seems to support a four vowel theory. However on closer examination it is clear that this is not what Josephus is saying. Josephus is not supplying information about the pronunciation of the name. In fact in Antiquities 2:12:4 Josephus states that it would not be lawful for him to do so. Josephus is instead referring to the four letters YHWH which appeared on the High Priest’s headpiece. But why would Josephus term these four consonants as "vowels"? As discussed earlier the Hebrew letters YUD, HEY and VAV (which make up YHWH) have no equivelants in Greek. They are generally transliterated in Greek with Greek letters that happen to be vowels. The reason for this is that when the Greeks borrowed the Phonecian/Paleo-Hebrew alphabet they used leftover consonants that did not occur in their language and used them as symbols for vowels, as Robert Whiting writes:

When the Greeks adapted the Phoenician writing system to their own language… they made a very significant change. They created signs for vowels and used them each time a vowel occurred. … The Greeks did not invent new signs for the vowels but simply converted some of the Phoenecian signs that they did not need for their own language into vowel symbols.
(The New Book of Knowledge Vol. 1 p. 193 "Alphabet" article by
Robert M. Whiting, the Oriental Institute, the University of Chicago)

As a result Hebrew YUD became the Greek vowel IOTA; Hebrew HEY became Greek vowel EPSILON and Hebrew VAV became Greek vowel UPSILON. For this reason Josephus writes that the four letters which appeared on the High Priest’s headpiece were four "vowels." To the Greek speaking audience of the Greek edition of Wars of the Jews, the four letters on the High Priest’s headpiece were in fact four vowels.

Some who have supported the idea that the name of YHWH is four vowels have also pointed to the use of the letters YUD, HEY and VAV in Hebrew as vowels. However the use of these letters as vowels in Hebew is a later revision of the language. Moreover each of them serves as a vowel only when paired with a consonant, as a result none of these letters is ever a vowel when it initiates a word or syllable. Hebrew was originally a syllabary in which each letter symbolized a consonant vowel pair with the vowel being ambiguous. As Robert Whiting writes:

The Semitic peoples of Syria and Palestine developed purely syllabic writing systems… their signs expressed consonants plus any vowel.
(ibid)

It was not until the ninth century B.C.E. that the Hebrew letters YUD, HEY and VAV began to double as vowels (and then only when paired with consonants). As Ellis Brotzman writes:

From about the ninth century on, certain consonants came to be used to indicate vowels. These "helping" consonants are called matres lectionis, literally "mothers of reading."
(Old Testament Textual Criticism by Ellis R. Brotzman p. 40)

Thus prior to this time the letters YUD HEY VAV HEY (YHWH) stood for four Hebrew consonants. Even in later Hebrew an initial YUD can never represent a vowel.

The Hebrew Tanak was originally written like all ancient Hebrew, without vowels. When the Masorites (traditionalists) added vowels to the Hebrew text in the middle ages they came across a serious problem. The name had been "kept secret" and "hidden" for hundreds of years. Since the text contained only consonants in its written form, the vowels were generally unknown. In order to create vowels for the written name and continue to keep the name "secret" and "hidden" the vowels for Adonai were translated into the word YHWH. Later the vowels for Eloah (God) were used creating YEHOWAH. These vowels for YHWH actually violate the rules of Hebrew grammar since they use the W as a consonant and a vowel at the same time. Since in modern Hebrew the Hebrew letter WAW (later called VAV) is pronounced "V" in place of its ancient pronunciation "W", YEHOWAH became YEHOVAH. This became transliterated in the original KJV English as IEHOVAH and later when the J was added to English IEHOVAH became JEHOVAH. However the J and the V in "Jehovah" are incorrect, as are the vowels E-O-A which actually come from ELOAH. In fact only the two letters H-H are correct. The correct pronunciation of YHWH has however, been preserved.

The first evidence for the true pronunciation of YHWH is found in the Hebrew text itself in those Hebrew names of which the Divine Name forms a part. Now when a Hebrew name in the Tanak begins with part of the divine name, the vowels are given as E-O. Some examples are:

Yehoshaphat (Jehoshaphat) YEHO- Shaphat

Yehoshua (Joshua) YEHO- Shua

In these names the incorrect vowels from YEHOWAH have been transplanted into their names. However when we look instead at names which end with part of the Divine Name we find completely different vowels in the Masoretic text. Some examples are:

Yeshayahu (Isaiah) Yesha- YAHU

Yiramiyahu (Jeremiah) Yiremi- YAHU

Eliyahu (Elijah) Eli- YAHU

Moreover the "tri-gramaton" (the first three letters of YHWH) appear by themselves in the Tenach and always with the vowels being YAHU. Finally the Hebrew word Halleluyah (praise-Yah) has the first portion of the divine name with the vowels YAH.

Another source for the correct pronunciation of the name of YHWH is the Peshitta Aramaic text. The Peshitta is an Aramaic text of the Bible used by Aramaic speaking Assyrians, Syrians and Chaldeans. These Aramaic speaking peoples became Christianized in the first century C.E.. By the fourth century (long before the Masorites of the nineth century) these people created written vowels for the Aramaic text. When they added vowels to names that begin with part of the divine name they got names like YAHOSHAPHAT reather than YEHOSHAPHAT.

Further evidence as to the original pronunciation of YHWH can be found in ancient transliterations of the name into Egyptian hieroglyphics, which had written vowels. Although this author is not aware of any case in which the entire name of YHWH has been found transliterated into Egyptian hieroglyphics, there are cases where the abbreviated name (the first portion of the name) has been found transliterated in hieroglyphics. Budge’s AN EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHIC DICTIONARY give two transliterations that occur in Egyptian glyphs. The first is given on page 15 column A and is "IA" or "YA." The other is on page 142 column A and transliterates in English as "IAA" or "YAA." This supports the fact that the original pronunciation of the first syllable of the name was "YA."

Another source of evidence for the correct pronunciation of the name of YHWH can be found in ancient transliterations of the name of YHWH into cuneiform script, which unlike Hebrew script, had written vowels. In 1898 A. H. Sayce published the discovery of three clay cuneiform tablets from the time of Hammurabi which contained the phrase "Jahweh (Jehovah) is God." (Halley’s Bible Handbook p. 62). Now obviously the text read "Yahweh" and not "Jahweh" as was common to transliterate it in the 19th century. (This author believes this cuneiform should be examined to see if it reads YAHUWEH rather than YAHWEH).

A further source for evidence in cuneiform is the Murashu texts. The Murashu texts are Aramaic texts written in cuneiform script on clay tablets found at Nippur. These texts date back to 464 to 404 B.C.E. and contain many Jewish names transcribed in cuneiform with the vowels. Many of these names contain part of the divine name in the name. In all these names the first portion of the name appears as YAHU and never as YEHO. ("Patterns in Jewish Personal Names in the Babylonian Diasporia" by M.D. Coogan; Journal for the Study of Judaism, Vol. IV, No. 2, p. 183f ).

Transliterations of YHWH also occur in ancient Greek texts. Although late by comparison to the hieroglyphic and cuneiform evidence, these Greek transliterations also contain the name with vowels. The following chart shows a list of Greek transliterations of YHWH (in English), their date and their source:
Transliteration

source


date
IAO Qumran LXX first century
IAOUE Clement of Alexandria 150 – 212 C.E.
AwOUhEI Greek Papyri ?
IAw Theodoret ?
IAh Origin 250 C.E
IAw Epiphanius 380 C.E.

(NOTE: "OU" are pronounced together in
Greek as "oo" as in "zoo")

Now transliterating the name of YHWH into Greek is not easy. This is because certain Hebrew letters/sounds do not occur in Greek. Among these are the letters YUD (Y); HEY (H) and VAV (W) the very letters which make up the name in Hebrew. When transliterating these letters into Greek substitutions are made. Consistently the Hebrew letter YUD (Y) is transliterated into Greek as IOTA (I). Thus all of our Greek witnesses agree that YHWH begins with YA. The next letter HEY (H) is impossible to write in Greek. Some of the Greek sources have attempted to transliterate it with OMEGA (which I have transliterated with a "w" and which is pronounced "o" as in "no." Origin has tried to use ETA for this letter (I have transliterated it with an "h"). ETA as a character descends from the Paleo-Hebrew HEY but is pronounced "ey" as in "they." Clement and the Greek Papyri agree that the next vowel is "oo" as in "zoo." Clement gives the final syllable as "E" and the Greek Papyri has "hE" which agrees with a Hebrew termination of "-eh" Thus it is evident that the Greek transliterations are consistent with a Hebrew pronunciation of "YAHUWEH."

It is clear when examining the many sources that the pronunciation of YHWH can be recovered as YAHUWEH sometimes abbreviated as YAHWEH, YAHU or YAH. This is attested to by the Yahwitic names of the Masoretic text, the Peshitta Aramaic and the Marashu texts. The true pronunciation of YHWH is also preserved in ancient transliterations of the name written in Egyptian Hieroglyphics, cuneiform and Greek, all of which had written vowels.

The restoration of the use of the name of Yahuweh with its correct pronunciation is as prophetically significant as the restoration of the ancient sect of the Nazarenes. Such a restoration of the name of Yahweh to his people is promised in scripture:

For then will I turn to the people a pure language, That they may call upon the name of YHWH…
(Zeph. 3:9)

Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know my name is YHWH.
(Jer. 16:21)

Therefore my people shall know my name…
(Is. 52:6)

...and they shall praise Me in the land of their captivity,
and shall invoke my name.
(Baruch 2:32)

We are living in wonderful times, as Yeshua tells us:

…You shall not see me henceforth, till you shall say:"Blessed is he who comes in the name of Yahuweh!"
(Mt. 23:39)

James Trimm
Wolrdwide Nazarene Assembly of Elohim
http://www.lulu.com/nazarene

[Anaiah Priel (Andrew P) Carlson]

I have not gotten a chance to read all of your thoughts yet, though, i do want to emphasize that I am in general agreement except that the sacred name seems more of a secondary thing. Maybe I am wrong, but, if us Nazarenes use words that people don't understand or aren't familiar with, it represents an unnecessary obstacle the way i see it. I believe that when a person has come to the truth of Torah Observance, they will then be introduced at their abilities to the ways of the entire torah. They will first be given the milk as young believers, and then they will move on to the meat. It would seem that the sacred name is a meat issue, one that perhaps should not be sprung so forcefully quickly on the prospective. I have yet to acquire the sacred name in my vocabulary, but i have only recently realized, and I have not had the time to learn it yet. When a believer realizes God wants us to say his sacred name, then they will begin to try and learn how to say them. I'm only at the beginning on this, i hope you acknowledge that degentilization takes time and comes in stages. What they know to be sin, they must forsake it, but they will continue learn different areas of their life that they need to give to God. With greater knowledge comes greater responsibility.

[J. Jury]

This part is key:

James Trimm said:

...and they shall praise Me in the land of their captivity,
and shall invoke my name.
(Baruch 2:32)

How could Baruch have prophesied that we (the lost sheep) will call upon His name, if we don't know or use His name????

blessed be the name of YHWH!!