Nazarene Space

The "Whole Truth" and "Nothing but the Truth"

Imagine yourself in this situation. A bailiff asks you to place your right hand on a book he says is the "Bible" and repeat after him before you are allowed to speak to the presiding judge. 

________________________________

Oath:

Do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Note: In some cases "so help you God" may be replaced with "under pains and penalties of perjury".

Oath (California):

You do solemnly state that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God.

_________________________________

Now, knowing scripture advises us NOT to make oaths...

Jas 5:12 But above all, my brothers, do not swear, either by the heaven or by the earth or with any other oath. But let your Yes be Yes, and your No, No, lest you fall into judgment.

Furthermore, knowing (voweless) scripture tells us not to use the false title, "GxD" when referring to the Eternal...

Isa 65:11  “But you are those who forsake יהוה, who forget My set-apart mountain, who prepare a table for Gad ( לגד ), and who fill a drink offering for Meni.

...Comments please! How would you respond?

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How anyone can maintain the dual standard required to turn a blind eye to the thousands of injustices that occur in "government" daily is unfortunate for those that think they can maintain a semblance of freedom while simultaneously thinking they need protection from something from someone that as I have mentioned has no legal obligation to protect you.



your claim of “thousands of injustices that occur daily” is difficult to substantiate, let alone this speech is the grand style of a communist pamphleteer relying too much on generalisations hoping to sweep the audience by the storm of careless generalisations. i rather see that statement as coming from one who, if given the moment to sit as a judge in the court, can endanger the entire human species. :/



Doubtful of the "thousands of injustices" I've mentioned?


Example A:

Just yesterday I went to a "tag agency" here in OK to transfer a used car title/plates. The woman behind the counter mentioned I will be required to pay an "excise tax" on a used vehicle I purchased for my daughter, in another state. I asked her why I am required to pay a tax on a car that was purchased used and has already been taxed once. She said "it's the law". I asked what if I refused to pay that tax. She said I would eventually get pulled over handcuffed and be hauled of to jail and have the car towed away. I asked her how could the "peace officer" could arrest me not having jurisdiction? She said she only works there and is following instructions. I asked asked her if she knew if the govenor needed a new car or something? Getting the big picture now? See that wasn't hard to substantiate was it? Does this mean if I sell my
lawnmower to my neighbor I should have a tax id number and charge him tax for the governor/"state" also?  
Question: (2nd time) Do you think taxation such as this is a form of slavery? (I sure as sheol do!)

Lysander Spooners discourse on the "constitution of no authority" was not a speech as far as I know. Here's wiki's comments...

Lysander Spooner (January 19, 1808—May 14, 1887) was an American individualist anarchist, political philosopher, Deist, Unitarian abolitionist, supporter of the labor movement, legal theorist, and entrepreneur of the nineteenth century. He is also known for competing with the U.S. Post Office with his American Letter Mail Company, which was forced out of business by the United States federal government.

Communism/socialism requires gentile "leaders". (You know, kinda like what we have here in the US with the ever increasing size of "government" we have?)  An abolitionist is adamantly against any such arrangement. Mr. Spooner and all peace loving abolitionists campaign for a free and open volunteer society. (..which would thrive) Marc Stevens says it well by stating, "No product or service should be provided at the/by the barrel of a gun". No "generalizations" are used. He very well, "legally" points out that as mentioned, ""legally, the constitution has no authority". (Don't feel bad, I was duped/indoctrinated as a child also... "I pledge allegance" ...What does "allegance" mean to a 9 year old?)  

Apparently you faith in the "judicial" system is skewed also. How can there not be a conflict of interest in a "civil" courtroom when the judge works for "the city/state", the prosecuting attorney works for "the city/state and the cop works for "the city/state". Really? Fair trail? You are correct. They do endanger the entire human species.

An abolitionist is adamantly against any such arrangement. Mr. Spooner and all peace loving abolitionists campaign for a free and open volunteer society. (..which would thrive)...”

--i have no problem if it would thrive.a jew can co-efficiently exist with any society so long as no external compulsion is imposed contrary to torah..a constitution or without constitution, to a jew it is the same --he/she is under the law of torah inside.  so that, if you can make it happen it doesn't change anything in me, still my thoughts, words and actions are bound to remain within my traditional keeping regardless if outside has their own law or not.

Marc Stevens says it well by stating, "No product or service should be provided at the/by the barrel of a gun"

--it is the problem indeed: this civilization is at the stage as to require a central organ in order to protect itself from such element of society, a tangible part expected to remain for the centuries to come..if there is no product or service provided at the/by the barrel of a gun, (same rule exists today under constitution) then..... the gun explodes to your face..and no amount of philosophy can save you from ruin.

Does this mean if I sell my lawnmower to my neighbor I should have a tax id number and charge him tax for the governor/"state" also?”

--tax number is merely incidental to the taxing power, the TaxID is for record keeping; while taxation is an inherent power of the state. (governor is just an elected executive to perform ministerial function presecribed by the law; a governor is NOT the state).


Question: (2nd time) Do you think taxation such as this is a form of slavery?”

--good question. taxation is not a form of slavery.

Taxation is the power of state to exact tribute from the citizens in order to sustain its government and the government continues to exercise its functions for the benefit of its people.

Slavery is imposed by exacting labor/service from the person without compensation. the service rendered to the master is free, there is no salary or compensation to the slave, save that the master shall keep the slave alive to remain useful to him.

taxation and slavery thus are two distinct forms of transaction. the former is a necessary power of state (community central organ) while the latter is a social relationship between two persons only. there is no way the two can be similar --except by malicious equivocation.


Apparently you faith in the "judicial" system is skewed also.”

mine is not a matter of faith... it is matter of profession; and if you think I am skewed, how will you straighten yours to the right angle?

How can there not be a conflict of interest in a "civil" courtroom when the judge works for "the city/state", the prosecuting attorney works for "the city/state and the cop works for "the city/state"

there is no conflict of interest because in a civil case the parties alone have interest to the case, not the state. if the buyer of your lawnmower paid you a fake dollar bill (which you only happen to know upon refusal to accept when tendered to the bank or other payee), file your case, then the parties-in-interest is you and buyer –the federal government has NO conflict of interest to hire the service of a judge to hear, try and decided over your case, no one else (not the fed nor the judge) is interested over a cranky lawnmower and a fake dollar bill. Your case shall be heard fairly and decision shall be given up to whatever evidence is presented, there is no need to philosophize that.

“Marc Stevens says it well by stating, "No product or service should be provided at the/by the barrel of a gun"
 

Quote
--it is the problem indeed: this civilization is at the stage as to require a central organ in order to protect itself from such element of society, a tangible part expected to remain for the centuries to come..if there is no product or service provided at the/by the barrel of a gun, (same rule exists today under constitution) then..... the gun explodes to your face..and no amount of philosophy can save you from ruin.

That's simply another way the "government" dupes sheeple into thinking they need to give up more of their personal freedoms in exchange for a mirage of "protection" I've already mentioned.  The "constitution" is another matter I've already mentioned. You know, the one George Bush called, "a damned piece of paper". Right, as I mentioned, they (goy "leaders") lie, steal and are willing to shoot you over anything THEY deem suitable/possible to get away with murder.

--tax number is merely incidental to the taxing power, the TaxID is for record keeping; while taxation is an inherent power of the state. (governor is just an elected executive to perform ministerial function presecribed by the law; a governor is NOT the state)

"The state" doesn't exist. Check any "state constitution" and you don't find it's borders described. Is it the dirt then? It's only a bunch of men and women acting as if they are needed "leaders" with "government" backing them. At what point might you think this dinosaur eating it's own tail may collapse/die? My guess is sooner than later. 

Quote

--good question. taxation is not a form of slavery.

Taxation is the power of state to exact tribute from the citizens in order to sustain its government and the government continues to exercise its functions for the benefit of its people.

Slavery is imposed by exacting labor/service from the person without compensation. the service rendered to the master is free, there is no salary or compensation to the slave, save that the master shall keep the slave alive to remain useful to him.

taxation and slavery thus are two distinct forms of transaction. the former is a necessary power of state (community central organ) while the latter is a social relationship between two persons only. there is no way the two can be similar --except by malicious equivocation.

(You really should check how the "supreme court" has defined what a "citizen" is AND IS NOT!) 

Now let’s examine what else slavery is:  A condition of subjection or submission characterized by lack of freedom of action or of will.   It is the choice between submission and threats, fines, jail, maiming or death.

NOT a form of slavery only because "no financial compensation is due the "slave"?  Wrong. Taxation is also theft! What moral sense of dignity would allow one man to forcefully (...by the barrel of a gun if required) take another mans fruit of his labor?  If it's not theft, why couldn't I go exact a tax from my neighbor? 

James Bovard writes...

  “The U.S. Treasury Department defines a tax as ‘a compulsory payment for which no specific benefit it received in return.’ No matter how many taxes a person pays, or what politicians promise, the taxpayer is not irrevocably entitled to a single benefit from the government. The level of taxation is thus a stark measure of government’s financial power over the individual – a precise gauge of the subjugation of the citizen to the financial demands of the state.”

Quote

there is no conflict of interest because in a civil case the parties alone have interest to the case, not the state. if the buyer of your lawnmower paid you a fake dollar bill (which you only happen to know upon refusal to accept when tendered to the bank or other payee), file your case, then the parties-in-interest is you and buyer –the federal government has NO conflict of interest to hire the service of a judge to hear, try and decided over your case, no one else (not the fed nor the judge) is interested over a cranky lawnmower and a fake dollar bill. Your case shall be heard fairly and decision shall be given up to whatever evidence is presented, there is no need to philosophize that.

Sorry, but you are wrong again. In "civil" cases many times it's "the state" against a person. (Careful or YOU could be next!) Check the balance sheets of many of the hard pressed municipalities. A large percentage of their budgets are generated by fines against non aggressive acts of people it deems violated "their codes" and are "necessary" in order to "keep the people safe". That's why we see the disproportionate rates of incarceration here. Over 90% of the people in prisons are there for non-violent acts. A "fair trail" is not possible here. Tell the judge he doesn't have jurisdiction and watch his response! The "federal government" is a reification in the minds of the sheeple. There is no "state" or "government".  You continue to hang your hat on those 4 pieces of paper even Mr. Davis (aka...Obama) spoke disparagingly about. Turn a blind eye to everything I've told you if you wish, as for me and my house...

Sorry, but you are wrong again. In "civil" cases many times it's "the state" against a person.

--you cannot make a rule by merely stating a magic of "many times".  and again, it appears you don't even understand what a civil case is. so i cannot pursue any further with you. it is a waste of time.

here is a sample of your incongruous thought:

"What moral sense of dignity would allow one man to forcefully..."

i was elaborating on the inherent power of a state to tax. "man" is not "state" you cannot equate the two terms, and you cannot draw a valid conclusion from that sicked premise. another, your claim that "there is no state" "no territory" evidently explains the fact that you are ignorant about law. i am sorry. but i have no time for childish bantering.

shavua' tov.

quote:
--you cannot make a rule by merely stating a magic of "many times". and again, it appears you don't even understand what a civil case is. so i cannot pursue any further with you. it is a waste of time.

Reply if you wish or "have the time" to. How can/do you insinuate it's "my rule"? Are you sure you understand? Civil cases are either contractual or tort. Are you saying these are never "the state" against any one individual? Your kidding right? Do I need to start listing case examples for you?

quote
i was elaborating on the inherent power of a state to tax. "man" is not "state" you cannot equate the two terms, and you cannot draw a valid conclusion from that sicked premise. another, your claim that "there is no state" "no territory" evidently explains the fact that you are ignorant about law. i am sorry. but i have no time for childish bantering.

I agree that "man is not the state". That's not what I said. Here's what I said...
It's only a bunch of men and women acting as if they are needed "leaders" with "government" backing them
Sorry if that offends you. Apparently you work for "the government"? I don't call offering service at the barrel of gun, "childish bantering", especially when city employees can get away with murder.

This photo pretty well sums it up...

Civil cases are either contractual or tort. Are you saying these are never "the state" against any one individual?

-wrong. there are more types of civil cases including remedies and if you didn't study law you better remain silent or you only speak out your ignorance all the more. civil cases are court battles fought between private persons over civil causes, although there are cases when the state or government must necessarily enter into this type of case and act like a private entity.

Your kidding right?

-it is your thinking that sounds like a kid, rather.

Do I need to start listing case examples for you?

-if you were smart enough you'd know the kind of mind behind your panel. you don't have to enumerate examples to me... it is you who need more of it.

It's only a bunch of men and women acting as if they are needed "leaders" with "government" backing them

-men and women are not bananas that go by the "bunch". the way you speak betrays the fact that you lack legal training to tackle legal problems.

just use your simple reasoning: if there was no government in the US you wouldn't be there comfortably seated and go surfing. in the first place it is the state government that guaranty the law behind your ISP contract and the ISP company itself is a simple juridical person created by the fiction of state laws; not mentioning the burglars kept away from your home by the simple thought of state penal laws.

don't be that hypocrite and naivete.

I don't call offering service at the barrel of gun, "childish bantering", especially when city employees can get away with murder.

--welcome to your world of pure imagination which you wanted us to believe that IT IS THE ONLY REALITY.

give it up boy. don't waste my time.

Civil cases are either contractual or tort. Are you saying these are never "the state" against any one individual?

    -wrong. there are more types of civil cases including remedies and if you didn't study law you better remain silent or you only speak
out your ignorance all the more. civil cases are court battles fought between private persons over civil causes, although there are cases
when the state or government must necessarily enter into this type of case and act like a private entity.

Should we assume you have "studied law" more than I? That may or may not be the case. Who cares! With the endless additions to "law" bureaucrats make daily, no person on earth could possibly keep up with it. Either way, it seems to me the example cases you have indicated..."remedies" are usually the result of damage control stemming from "tort" or "contractural" violations.


Here, read this...
http://www.wildy.com/isbn/9781846410031/understanding-contractural-...
or here...
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/contract-and-tort-law...



    
Your kidding right?

    -it is your thinking that sounds like a kid, rather.

Apparently you need to return to grammar school also. Kidding is a verb, not a noun.  


    


    
It's only a bunch of men and women acting as if they are needed "leaders" with "government" backing them


    -men and women are not bananas that go by the "bunch". the way you speak betrays the fact that you lack legal training to tackle legal problems.

    -just use your simple reasoning: if there was no government in the US you wouldn't be there comfortably seated and go surfing. in the first place it is the state government that guaranty the law behind your ISP contract and the ISP company itself is a simple juridical person created by the fiction of state laws; not mentioning the burglars kept away from your home by the simple thought of state penal laws.

    -don't be that hypocrite and naivete.


Your right, I should have used the word, bureaucrats instead. It's much more suiting isn't it.  "Simple reasoning", which seems to escape you at times, tells me I/You/Everyone could get along just fine without the lies, thefts and killings that occur daily at the hand of bureaucrats. Robbery is robbery whether done by an individual man or ostensibly by majority vote. Do you really think valid obligations are created by violence and organized coercion?  The only "legal training" I care to embark in would be whatever assists me and every other tax slave here in the lands called the "US" to break free from
the endless parade of bureaucrats steeling from me/everyone daily. The only other "legal training" I need to know is "Please provide PROOF, ACTUAL EVIDENCE, your code applies to ME when I am physically in X. (Bet you wont touch that with a reply... Kinda like my other question pertaining to your professional affiliation.)  





        I don't call offering service at the barrel of gun, "childish bantering", especially when city employees can get away with murder.

  
--welcome to your world of pure imagination which you wanted us to believe that IT IS THE ONLY REALITY.

   ---- give it up boy. don't waste my time.

Your ad homimen attack is childish and also a violation of Nazarene Space rules. How you can also turn a blind eye to the violence perpetrated on innocent people and at the same time call yourself Torah observant is a mystery to me. Your not wasting my time! I love deprogramming Statist.  

 

Gad (gimel, dales) is not equivalent to "God". It's a different language group. "God" is a germanic equivalent to "Eloyhim" or "Theos" or "Deus". Since when were we forbidden to translate?

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