Nazarene Space

Vowel-Pointed Name Theories: How and Where are they Verified?

Brother James, All,
2 Questions
1) I am constantly told that the beloved Jews applied diversionary vowel points to the Tetragram, in order to keep people from saying it properly.
I have evidence that this is so, but I want to know more.
Question 1) Where have the Jews formally documented this? I see speculation everywhere on the types of vowel points, and the form they take. But I cannot seem to find anywhere that the diversionary vowel points are formally attested. I am thinking of a rabbinic source, like the Talmud, etc., which would lay it out clearly that this is what they did.
2) It has further been claimed, for example by Anson Rainy, and perhaps others, that the Shewa we see applied to the  Theophoric TriGram (YHW), was an attempt to further divert the reader from saying The Name. It is claimed that, being in the beginning of a word, an original a-vowel might trigger an inadvertent pronunciation of The Whole Name. I don't believe that, because the free-floating YH form is vowel pointed with a Qamets, which could also lead to Name pronunciation. It seems that the massorites overlooked a big one there, if this theory were true.
Question 2) Where have the Jews formally documented the use of diversionary vowel points applied to the TriGram Theophoric prefix?
==> I need traceable data that both theories are true. I'll take anything that anybody has.
If my questions are answered in some book published by Trimm, I will be glad to buy it, if I haven't already.
Kind blessings,
Michael B

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For a Hebrew phenomenon supposedly well-known, I am surprised at the lack of response.

 I have been watching your post as well waiting for a link to the name . I have been under the impression the massorite miss - dircected the vowel pointing so the name could not be said ?  I see / hear many say  Yahweh Yahveh  feeling they are using the correct usage  ? Looking forward to your findings .

Thanks, Rick.

The whole scene is kind of outrageous. The "adonai" vowel points on The Tegtrgram are indisputable. I know this because, when The Tetragram is preceded by the word "Adonai", the Tetragram's vowel points change to those appropriate for "Elohim". That's obvious when you think about it. But I want to understand the methods and the rules. Funny how this business works. Scholar Anson Rainy claimed that the diversionary vowel points were applied to names with a Theophoric prefix. To him, this explains inflections like Yehozadak, Yehochanan, etc., rather than "Yah"ozadak and "Yah"ochanan. I think Rainy and his ilk are is wrong to assert such an unproven claim. And there is no evidence, internal or external, to prove it. But now that a scholar of his stature has flung that on the wall, the gravitational pull of his reputation keeps it on the wall, and now I am stuck having to disprove it. I am certain that some Hebrews did inflect "Yah" in the beginning of those names, but the linguistic evidence is abundant that some dialects of Hebrew inflected "Yeh", and I am fine either way. My gripe: There are some, who are avoiding a "Yeh" inflection, simply because if a "Yeh" inflection for Theophric names is allowed to stand, then it might lend weight to the form "Yehovah." I'm not here to defend the (minimally plausible) Yehovah form. But I don't want to see legitimate linguistics shot down, merely because of an inadvertent connection to an unwanted outcome.

You may have to read all that again to get my point. Sorry.

I have crushing, overwhelming evidence for everything I claim regarding Holy Names. Yet, this off-hand claim by Anson Rainy has the unwanted affect of skewing everything.

There are times when we allow the scholars to have an undue amount of influence on the fellowship.

Michael, thank you for your response . As to Anson Rainy I don`t know him , there were 3-4 years that I did say Yahweh . After my own study of ( the name ) I Came to realize taking the 3rd commandment into account , not bringing the name low it became easy for me to accept Adonai , HaShem Elohim . Lord , God . I have been to a jewish yeshiva , so studing with Jewish teachers Adonai , HaShem became the norm . Still I am curious to your findings , good luck  R T

How abut avoiding the vowel dance all together and simply pronounce the 3 consonants as they sound?

Hi, Mikha El.

Well, if I was searching for the "true" pronunciation, I might wrap my head around your suggestion, and consider it. But that's not what I am seeking.

I want to understand two particular phenomena in this arena. That's all.

Thanks, anyway, and shalom!

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