Nazarene Space

What does the phrase, "All Isral will be saved," mean?

Many Believers interpret the statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” to mean that after “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,” Yeshua will return, reveal Himself as Messiah to the Jewish people and, as a result, the entire Jewish race will experience a mass conversion. I don't believe this is so!

The key to understanding this statement is to understand which “Israel” Paul is referring to: Israel “according to the flesh,” Israel “according to the promise” or the “Israel of Elohim!” In order to answer this question properly; however, we must first examine his statement, “all Israel will be saved,” in context!

In Romans 11:13-24,Paul likens Israel to a cultivated olive tree and explains that some of its branches were cut off due to unbelief. Of course, the branches that remained on the tree symbolize remnant Israel, the “children of the promise,” and the branches that were cut off symbolize the “children of the flesh” (Rom. 9:1-8). In the same analogy, Paul also likens Gentiles to a wild olive tree and explains that some of its branches were cut off and grafted into the cultivated olive tree, remnant Israel. Then, he explains that those branches that were grafted into remnant Israel symbolize Gentile converts to the faith.

Immediately after using the analogy of the two olive trees, Paul added, “For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away wickedness from Jacob...” (Rom. 11:25-26).

Notice that Paul does not state, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And then all Israel will be saved.” He states, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved.” The word “so” was translated from the Greek word “houto” which, according to the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon, means: “in this manner,” “thus,” or “so.”

Thus, the context proves that Paul’s statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” is a concluding statement to the topic he was currently addressing- the cultivated olive tree. This proves that the “Israel” he is referring to in his statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” is the Israel symbolized by the cultivated olive tree, which includes both Israelite Believers and Gentile converts to the faith, the Israel of Elohim (Gal. 6:15-16).

YHWH, because He is a loving Elohim, will not wait until the fullness of the Gentiles has come to strip away Israel’s blindness. The truth is that He has been stripping away their blindness all along, even during the times of the Gentiles. Paul states, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.”

Had Paul intended the statement to mean that after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, all Israel will experience a mass conversion, he would have included that statement in his letter to the Hebrews!

Shalom!

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“And so all Israel will be saved”

I interpret it to mean ALL of Israel will be saved and receive immortality and be granted eternal life.
Nobody deserves salvation, so God is free to give it to whomever he pleases.
I agree. All of "Israel" is the cultivated tree. This is whom Yahweh has stated, in His, and by His, Word who will initially receive salvation (Yeshua). The remainder hopefully get one last chance at the Great White Throne Judgement after the 1000 year reign.

The key to understanding this statement is to understand which “Israel” Paul is referring to: Israel “according to the flesh,” Israel “according to the promise” or the “Israel of Elohim!”

reply:

all three,

“according to the flesh,” --because Israel was not a ghost, they are men from Yaakov

Israel “according to the promise” --because they are the people of the promise

“Israel of Elohim!” --G-d never had another Israel (even at the time that there were yet no palestinians)


In order to answer this question properly; however, we must first examine his statement, “all Israel will be saved,” in context!

does it need closer examination?

Had Paul intended the statement to mean that after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, all Israel will experience a mass conversion, he would have included that statement in his letter to the Hebrews!

the letter to the Hebrews was intended to concern on law, priesthood and faith in Yeshua, not for some prophecies.

I think you are right: All Israel is ALL Israel

 



beryl etanah said:


The key to understanding this statement is to understand which “Israel” Paul is referring to: Israel “according to the flesh,” Israel “according to the promise” or the “Israel of Elohim!”

reply:

all three,

“according to the flesh,” --because Israel was not a ghost, they are men from Yaakov

Israel “according to the promise” --because they are the people of the promise

“Israel of Elohim!” --G-d never had another Israel (even at the time that there were yet no palestinians)


In order to answer this question properly; however, we must first examine his statement, “all Israel will be saved,” in context!

does it need closer examination?

Had Paul intended the statement to mean that after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, all Israel will experience a mass conversion, he would have included that statement in his letter to the Hebrews!

the letter to the Hebrews was intended to concern on law, priesthood and faith in Yeshua, not for some prophecies.

Shaul means something else, he doesn't mean rabbinics and karaites and chassidim will all be saved eventhough they are the ones who Yashua and the Prophets call blind and strayed off course.

The answer to what he says is actually in Revelations;

Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we shall have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. 7:4And I heard the number of them that were sealed, a hundred and forty and four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:

 7:5Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand; 7:6Of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand; 7:7Of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand; 7:8Of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand; Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

 

kol Yisrael means all tribes will be saved, not all individuals because otherwise every Jew who ever died will also be saved simply because he was a israelite/jew.. The above is what Shaul meant, all tribes will be saved!

Perhaps a key to the meaning is the parallel phrase "All Israel has a part in the World to Come" in the Talmud (Mishna Sanhedrin 10:1a)

However lets look at the rest of this Mishna:

All Israel has a part in the World to Come
as it is said, "Your people also shall all be righteous, they shall inherit the Land forever; the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified." (Is. 60:21)

Notice the Mishna draws the idea that all Israel has a part in the World to Come from  Isaiah 60:21 which says "Your people also shall all be righteous... the branch of my planting..." And Paul writes "you [branches]... were grafted in... (Rom. 11:17) ... And so all Israel shall be saved.." (Rom. 11:26)

There is a high likelyhood Paul has this Mishna is mind.  He was clealy aware of this Mishna and the Gemara that goes with it (see: http://nazarenespace.com/page/paul-argues-talmud-before-the )

Now Mishna Sanhedrin 10:1b goes on to say:

And these are the ones who have no place in the World to Come:
He who says:
(1) the resurrection is a doctrine which is not taught in the Torah.
(2) and [he who says] the Torah does not come from Heaven;
(3) an Epicurean. 

This records the ancient tradition, the Mishna then goes on to tell us off additions from later Rabbis:

Rabbi Akiva says "Also he who reads in the heretical books, and he who whispers over a wound and says "I will put none of the diseases upon you which I have put on the Egyptians, for I am YHWH who heals you." (Ex. 15:26)

Here Akiba probably refers to Nazarenes who healed "In Yeshua".  The Gematria of "In Yeshua" and "I am YHWH who heals you" is the same.  Akiba was very anti-Nazarene partly because he believed Bar Kochba was the Messiah. 

the Mishna goes on to say:

Abba Shaul says "Also: he who pronounces the Divine Name as it is spelled out."

Probably another reference to Nazarenes. 
(see http://nazarenespace.com/page/nazarenes-and-the-name-of-yhwh )

This Mishna is saying that the term "Israel" while it can sometimes refer to beliving and apostate Israelites, can at times also refer only to beieving Israelites.  In this case the point is to define who is so apostate as to be excluded from the people of Israel and therefore from the World to Come.  In light of this Mishna, Romans 11:26 might be regarded as less than absolute.

 

James Trimm has put up a very good rabbinic perspective.

 

but i do think "All Israel" means "all".

all those whom G-d admits into the ulam haba' among his people.

whether it be a portion or the entire nation, only G-d knows. and what business do we have to gossip about who and who is not? i think the secret things belong to G-d, but the Torah is for us to keep.

 

lets proceed to a better topic.  ;-)

 

Who says this is a "secret thing" ?

beryl etanah said:

 

James Trimm has put up a very good rabbinic perspective.

 

but i do think "All Israel" means "all".

all those whom G-d admits into the ulam haba' among his people.

whether it be a portion or the entire nation, only G-d knows. and what business do we have to gossip about who and who is not? i think the secret things belong to G-d, but the Torah is for us to keep.

 

lets proceed to a better topic.  ;-)

 

Are you saying "Abba Shaul" is Paul ?

James Trimm said:
Perhaps a key to the meaning is the parallel phrase "All Israel has a part in the World to Come" in the Talmud (Mishna Sanhedrin 10:1a)

However lets look at the rest of this Mishna:

All Israel has a part in the World to Come
as it is said, "Your people also shall all be righteous, they shall inherit the Land forever; the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified." (Is. 60:21)

Notice the Mishna draws the idea that all Israel has a part in the World to Come from  Isaiah 60:21 which says "Your people also shall all be righteous... the branch of my planting..." And Paul writes "you [branches]... were grafted in... (Rom. 11:17) ... And so all Israel shall be saved.." (Rom. 11:26)

There is a high likelyhood Paul has this Mishna is mind.  He was clealy aware of this Mishna and the Gemara that goes with it (see: http://nazarenespace.com/page/paul-argues-talmud-before-the )

Now Mishna Sanhedrin 10:1b goes on to say:

And these are the ones who have no place in the World to Come:
He who says:
(1) the resurrection is a doctrine which is not taught in the Torah.
(2) and [he who says] the Torah does not come from Heaven;
(3) an Epicurean. 

This records the ancient tradition, the Mishna then goes on to tell us off additions from later Rabbis:

Rabbi Akiva says "Also he who reads in the heretical books, and he who whispers over a wound and says "I will put none of the diseases upon you which I have put on the Egyptians, for I am YHWH who heals you." (Ex. 15:26)

Here Akiba probably refers to Nazarenes who healed "In Yeshua".  The Gematria of "In Yeshua" and "I am YHWH who heals you" is the same.  Akiba was very anti-Nazarene partly because he believed Bar Kochba was the Messiah. 

the Mishna goes on to say:

Abba Shaul says "Also: he who pronounces the Divine Name as it is spelled out."

Probably another reference to Nazarenes. 
(see http://nazarenespace.com/page/nazarenes-and-the-name-of-yhwh )

This Mishna is saying that the term "Israel" while it can sometimes refer to beliving and apostate Israelites, can at times also refer only to beieving Israelites.  In this case the point is to define who is so apostate as to be excluded from the people of Israel and therefore from the World to Come.  In light of this Mishna, Romans 11:26 might be regarded as less than absolute.
Abba Shaul in Mishna 10:1 was not Paul
Nobody will be saved IN sin. But all God chooses will be saved from sin.
Nobody stops sinning without God specifically empowering them to.

Karaites will not be saved because they are Karaites, but because God chooses to judge them in a chastizing, purifying way, that will painfully purify them, humble them and sanctify them.
Karaites are merely an example, I could use any group.

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