Nazarene Space

What does the phrase, "All Isral will be saved," mean?

Many Believers interpret the statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” to mean that after “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,” Yeshua will return, reveal Himself as Messiah to the Jewish people and, as a result, the entire Jewish race will experience a mass conversion. I don't believe this is so!

The key to understanding this statement is to understand which “Israel” Paul is referring to: Israel “according to the flesh,” Israel “according to the promise” or the “Israel of Elohim!” In order to answer this question properly; however, we must first examine his statement, “all Israel will be saved,” in context!

In Romans 11:13-24,Paul likens Israel to a cultivated olive tree and explains that some of its branches were cut off due to unbelief. Of course, the branches that remained on the tree symbolize remnant Israel, the “children of the promise,” and the branches that were cut off symbolize the “children of the flesh” (Rom. 9:1-8). In the same analogy, Paul also likens Gentiles to a wild olive tree and explains that some of its branches were cut off and grafted into the cultivated olive tree, remnant Israel. Then, he explains that those branches that were grafted into remnant Israel symbolize Gentile converts to the faith.

Immediately after using the analogy of the two olive trees, Paul added, “For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away wickedness from Jacob...” (Rom. 11:25-26).

Notice that Paul does not state, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And then all Israel will be saved.” He states, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved.” The word “so” was translated from the Greek word “houto” which, according to the KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon, means: “in this manner,” “thus,” or “so.”

Thus, the context proves that Paul’s statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” is a concluding statement to the topic he was currently addressing- the cultivated olive tree. This proves that the “Israel” he is referring to in his statement, “And so all Israel will be saved,” is the Israel symbolized by the cultivated olive tree, which includes both Israelite Believers and Gentile converts to the faith, the Israel of Elohim (Gal. 6:15-16).

YHWH, because He is a loving Elohim, will not wait until the fullness of the Gentiles has come to strip away Israel’s blindness. The truth is that He has been stripping away their blindness all along, even during the times of the Gentiles. Paul states, “blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.”

Had Paul intended the statement to mean that after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, all Israel will experience a mass conversion, he would have included that statement in his letter to the Hebrews!

Shalom!

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Messiah is responding to accusations by those that say a human cannot be elohim.  but Messiah uses the verse to justify his being elohim despite his being humanity.

are you referring to this: "How can you tell ?
It makes no difference to my argument, as mankind being like God is the same as being Gods, because mankind is plural.."?

 

My answer would be you can tell because only God or sinners can "know" evil. further the Serpent wanted Eve to think she could sin and not die; this is not a feature of angels, but is asserted by many about God, the whole God can do whatever He wants concept.

You said: "The lie of Satan was not you shall be as gods, but you shall be as God"

This makes no big difference to me, and it is impossible to tell from the text - I would have to agree with your Pesher/interp, rooted in your supposed prophethood, which I don't.

Anayahu ven Dawid said:

are you referring to this: "How can you tell ?
It makes no difference to my argument, as mankind being like God is the same as being Gods, because mankind is plural.."?

 

My answer would be you can tell because only God or sinners can "know" evil. further the Serpent wanted Eve to think she could sin and not die; this is not a feature of angels, but is asserted by many about God, the whole God can do whatever He wants concept.

@Beryl:

I'm talking about angels, which are repeatedly called Elohim, Beney Elyon, Beney Elohim in the scriptures - not giants.
Yeshua and ps.82 are both referring to precedents; all of you seem to be saying that these verses are introducing new ideas - except Frank, who extrapolates a precedent (which I disagree with) from Genesis 1 it seems.


All Jewish, Christian and other translations I've read, including YLT, translates the v.6 of ps.82 as past tense, and who are we to go against the unanimous linguistic conclusion of men far more studied than us ?

Solomon said:
..note what the Moshiach says and how He applied the verse concerning men:

"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:34-35) not merely sons but themselves gods. the scripture cannot be broken merely because it is "past tense".


I believe the Messiah is refrring to himself as Elohim, by the logic that if angels are called Elohim, then Messiah is most definetely Elohim. Humans are not called Elohim in this verse, nor in psalm 82.

beryl etanah said:

 



just for the sake of statement: "you are gods".

this one refers to "men" particularly those men with authority or power over others. the psalm begins with "congregation of the mighty" that is definitely of human; and it finishes with "die like mere men" despite of their might and power on earth.


"Let's examine some verses from ps.82:
6“I said (AMARTI = past tense), ‘You are ELOHIM;
you are all BENEY ELYON.’"


..be it past participle or present tense: G-d has spoken and it holds "true" for all time. you cannot unmake an Adam just because he is spoken in past tense.



In this verse, YHWH is referencing a past statement.
What past statement?
These, for example:
Genesis 6:4, Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7


..this is fallacy. the psalm is not talking about "giants" and all these proof verses to derail the argument of opponent all use "third persons" but the psalm passage in issue is "second person" talking to man and about men of might. that is certainly a bad argument. unacceptable.

  • I understand you think he is calling them this in the psalm (for the first time) -

..note what the Moshiach says and how He applied the verse concerning men:

"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:34-35) not merely sons but themselves gods. the scripture cannot be broken merely because it is "past tense".



  • but my point is, the psalm is referecing a previous statement, which I don't think you'll be able to show me....Can you show me a past statement (ie occuring prior to David and Asaph's time) that said this ?

..where G-d says He has spoken... He has spoken and don't look for a writing because the passage merely says "He has spoken" it does not allege that "He has written"! we must take the word of the prophet for that even if he cannot show us any text.

 

i'm not a prophet yet sir, lol

@ Kefa.

 

You said: " Frank you are far from what you think you are! "

 

And, What Do I Think That I Am - Kefa? Because, I have made absolutely no claims about myself - to my own personal knowledge....

 

Meanwhile, You also said: " Beware, The Fall comes soon. "

 

And since you are, indeed, correct - Thank You - I shall finish storing up my own firewood for The Winter! ;0) lol

 

May Yahweh bless you - for offering such sound personal advice!

 

PS. Hopefully, you do have a sense of humor.

 

Kefa T Dixon said:

Frank you are far from what you think you are!

Beware the fall comes soon.

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