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What is the Mark of the Beast?  What do you think?

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Bob Miller,
You wrote

"I don't find proof of your claim about the meaning of generation in the NT being different than in the OT."
I never made that claim.  

I may or may not be wrong about the 2 possible ways to interpret the word "generation".

How can you believe that we are in the rule and reign of Messiah without having some kind of 'Messiah did not come in the flesh' Gnostic kind of spiritualization? Satan is the ruler of this age.  Satan did not stop ruling after the temple was destroyed.  We have no record of any of the believers who survived the temple destruction and lived after it believing otherwise.  That is immensely important.  Full preterism is a different Messiah.  The destruction of the temple is not the 2nd coming.

"Simply reading the text" one person translates "The eye is the lamp of the body and if your eye is single your whole body will be full of light"  and another the same text “The light for your earthly life is perception. Therefore, if your perception is without fault, your whole life shall be enlightened.” (Matthew 6:22).  I hate it when people use that excuse for not looking further into the meaning of it.  Not everything lines up with the full preterits view and you have to do a lot more than simply read the text to justify the rest of the full preterits view.

I have never taken the position of a full preterist.  If you do, you end up getting into replacement theology and Reconstructionism.  I'm not going there because the scriptures don't lead that way.  My point is simply from the evidence of the text in the several highly misinterpreted passages that ignore certain words (such as 'soon' and 'about to take place' in Revelation and then 'generation' in Matthew) will and has led to a myriad of unscriptural 'bunny trails' that mislead and misinform. Always, look at the words and they do a pretty good job of leading the reader to the meaning.  

However something of immense importance occurred in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.  Although there wasn't a physical return of Yeshua, (and the Olivet Discourse doesn't allude to that) there were many signs and wonders that occurred which led those living through the events of that time that it must have seemed apocalyptic.  My belief is that the scriptures that best apply to the post 70AD era are in the OT instead of the NT. 

AN INTERE-STING(ouch!) FIND WAS HOW ACTIONS AND SECTIONS OF THAT, "K'"BOOK , WHICH CLAIMS SUPERIORITY OVER ANY OTHER DOCTRINE has strAIGHT UP BLASPHEMY, and debasement. Just like warned of in ROMANS.

 And says lineage of ABRAHAM's SEED is VIA ISHMAEL. Also,  HAS TRIPLE 6 IN PORTIONS, AND THEREBY IS LAUDED IN SUPERIORITY by these of this leadership. Numerology is done,as method of prophecy.

Seen in practice in Africa: FORCED TAKING.OF.MARK.TO.EAT. 

theirs is haVING TOO A mESSIAH LIKE CHARACTER. fABRICATION FOR THEIR ILL PURPOSES IS PERMITED. sYNCHRATIST cATHOLIC MIND COULD MAKE SIMPLE THIS FINAL MALICIOUS MOVE.

  I recall my Dad. My brother recalls his Dad, and another brother does too. Same man and family yet seen by each, The diverse characteristics he possessed. Who was wrong?
MY PLEA: LOOK UP PAGES 842-843 in the, " Jewish New Testament Commentary", by David H. Stern.

Why? See there good illustrations of multiple views. Let me say this, while we debate hotly of things not seen, let not be adamant so as to talk another out of trust, if we are later found to be incorrect. I recall the wars of words and misuse of doctrines, etc. , which made a young under-trained youth lose heart and trust of all of it. 

Let us relish in the fact HE is on the way! Not JUST CAMPING OUT! HE IS HERE NOW! INTO ETERNITY! YE-AY!
Bob Miller said:

I have never taken the position of a full preterist.  If you do, you end up getting into replacement theology and Reconstructionism.  I'm not going there because the scriptures don't lead that way.  My point is simply from the evidence of the text in the several highly misinterpreted passages that ignore certain words (such as 'soon' and 'about to take place' in Revelation and then 'generation' in Matthew) will and has led to a myriad of unscriptural 'bunny trails' that mislead and misinform. Always, look at the words and they do a pretty good job of leading the reader to the meaning.  

However something of immense importance occurred in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.  Although there wasn't a physical return of Yeshua, (and the Olivet Discourse doesn't allude to that) there were many signs and wonders that occurred which led those living through the events of that time that it must have seemed apocalyptic.  My belief is that the scriptures that best apply to the post 70AD era are in the OT instead of the NT. 

A.J. . . . . this is the first posting you've made that I could actually understand.  Thanks!!!

Revelation 1:1-3  The Revelation of Y'shua Messiah, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Y'shua Messiah t, and of all things that he saw

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

In verse 1, reference is made to things future that must shortly come to pass. This sounds soon from someone's viewpoint. Verse 2 is broader. It says all things that he saw. The things that he was shown could encompass past, present and future. 

In verse 19, it seems clear that the content of this book will discuss things past, present and future. 

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

I believe however that we can often be very chronocentric and project that view upon scripture and nature. It is easy to persist in a view that time is static. Clearly that is not the case. First of all, each one of us is in a time zone of some kind. For some of us it is around 9:00 am. For others 9:00 am is past and for others it is still future. 

We have seen from tests that a plane flying east loses time, while the one flying west gains time. Every once in a while because of the slight slowing of the earth's spin, a "leap second" is added to our clocks. Therefore a twenty four hour day now is slightly different from what it used to be and will be different in the future. We may still call it 24 hours, but the time is ever slightly changing. 

No doubt most are familiar with Einstein's famous equation e=mc2. We tend to want to separate light, time, space, matter and other forces. It seems that time and space are unutterably inseparable. Hence physicists typically refer to "space-time." 

As Einstein shows in his general theory of relativity, the way time is experienced is dependent upon the speed or movement through space. As one moves closer to the speed of light, time slows. Likewise other forces can affect time such as gravity. It you have seen "Interstellar", much of the movie deals with these concepts. 

Just as we have different time zones, it also appears that earth time  is not necessarily immediately synchronized with other realms. Daniel prayed  for 21 earth days and finally Gabriel appears. He told Daniel that although he began making his way toward him as soon as Daniel set his intention to know the secrets, Gabriel was delayed because of a battle with other kingdoms. 

Gabriel said that he was delayed because he had been fighting the "Prince of Persian" in his time during the 21 days of earth time  Daniel prayed. Furthermore Gabriel told Daniel that at some point after leaving Daniel's realm, he would be  doing battle with the "Prince of Grecia." Now it appears that events pertaining to these kingdoms is different in the way they are experienced in Gabriel's realm compared to Daniel's realm. 

Again I'll reference "Interstellar" and try not to give away too much of the plot. Because of relative nature of time, ultimately the father ends up younger than the daughter.

We cannot ignore the many examples of "prophetic time" in the scripture as well. From the "day for a year" principle found in the Torah and also Ezekiel to the "weeks of years" in Daniel. 

How long is a day? 24 hours?

In the "day" you eat thereof, you shall surely die. Did Adam die withing 24 hours? No, the text tells us Adam died at 930. He died 70 years short of 1,000 years or a full day.

In Psalms we see that 1,000 years in your sight is as yesterday and better is one day in your court than a thousand. Peter tells us this principle is very important in understanding prophecy. In other words, time in not necessarily static, but relative.

2 Peter 3:8-11  But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

In explaining aspects of the "Day" of YHVH, Peter tells us that there is one thing not to be ignorant of, time is relative.

1 day = 1,000 years

1,000 years = 1 day

So from our point of view, the Messiah has been gone 2,000 years or 2 days in the week since Adam. Could it be that although to the people of earth Messiah has been gone a long time (2,000 years), from Y'shua's viewpoint, he has only been gone for around 48 hours?

Because light and gravity and possibly other forces affect the way time is experienced, it is possible that Y'shua has experienced time much differently since he left the earth than for those of us here. It then begins to make since of all of the passages referring to patiently waiting on the Messiah in contrast to his perspective of coming quickly. I have a lot more that I could add, but I'll try to keep it short as I can for now. 

Thanks for clarifying.  I agree.

Bob Miller said:

I have never taken the position of a full preterist.  If you do, you end up getting into replacement theology and Reconstructionism.  I'm not going there because the scriptures don't lead that way.  My point is simply from the evidence of the text in the several highly misinterpreted passages that ignore certain words (such as 'soon' and 'about to take place' in Revelation and then 'generation' in Matthew) will and has led to a myriad of unscriptural 'bunny trails' that mislead and misinform. Always, look at the words and they do a pretty good job of leading the reader to the meaning.  

However something of immense importance occurred in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.  Although there wasn't a physical return of Yeshua, (and the Olivet Discourse doesn't allude to that) there were many signs and wonders that occurred which led those living through the events of that time that it must have seemed apocalyptic.  My belief is that the scriptures that best apply to the post 70AD era are in the OT instead of the NT. 


I understand.  I agree.
Keith Murray said:

Im not sure the mark of the beast question is still on but in my point of view, again my opinion; taking from the context the number 666 given in revelations, it cannot be simply 666, scriptures even tells us that many will be confused, and how will anyone be confused if even none believers know 666 is the number of the beast? then it must be like a hidden symbol or the chip like some have already said that symbolizes or equals that number for example the *hexagram 6 points, 6 sides, 60 angle degrees, 6 mini triangles or maybe just a code on the chip newborns in Spain must have otherwise they cannot go to hospitals, but even if I was right or some of us might know the mark or number, whay shall we care? The Most High never commanded any mark or number that we should put on our hand or forehead, (including tefillin my brothers) so if any man, government, system etc comes with anything for you to put in your arm, even though you will not be able to buy, don't accept it, know that the King is coming soon.
Shalom

High Grade Education High grade? D-bate BAIT.

Prophetic theories always get convoluted when played through the prism of current events instead of the time the words were written and intended.  This is the danger of Premillennialism where all prophecies are yet to occur because we are such lousy and ignorant historians.  Taking the easy path is never fruitful instead of doing the hard work and difficult thinking that a true interpretation of a 2,000 year old document requires. 
Hate to break it to you or anyone else, but the scriptures weren't written about 21st century believers - neither were they written to the 21st century believers.  READ THE TEXT!!!  Ever heard of textual criticism?  Of course you haven't because your convoluted thinking gives evidence that you make up your theology first and then find convenient scripture passages and change the meanings if its necessary to 'prove' your theory.  That's not the way to do theology!  Whatever happened to basing theology on the clear evidence of the scripture and letting the proverbial chips fall where they may?  Of course if you do that . . . you might actually have to admit that the scripture is right while your preconceived notions are paramount to carrying water in a fish net.

I am completely sure this is the time. those who live to suffer the first contraction in 24 years from now will be alive for the returning of Mesiah.(there are 9 contractions)
The antichrist is 6 years old today!
And revelations was written for us my brethren.

Islam will take an important part in the future, it will be the biggest religion in the world, and their terrorism will increase, leading the world to great suffering;we know Muslims today have control of Temple Mount, but Muslims will soon disappear from Yisra'el, Jews will have total control of the land promised to us but the whole world will fill compassion for Muslims, every country will be a refuge to Islam and this is how Islam will expand being the major religion in the world. (Also every nation will go against Yisra'el)

Koran recites that a prophet will come with the spirit of Mahomad named Imam Mahdi, whom will be their leader in the final days and his goal is to control the whole world putting a mark of the beast on their forehead or right arm whomever does not accept it will serve the Muslims and if he or she refuses, it will die with the sword. (Read Koran)

( I'm not saying Islam or from it, the antichrist will come, bible tells us many antichrist have come and will come, so this could just be one more out of many)

Many believed in the Roman Empire return to be the beast,(vision of Daniel) and we all look upon Italy and the pope, but the 10 toes of the statute are 10 nations and Italy will not be a part of this Roman Empire this time. Italy will sink in 3 more government.( papacy)
Today the United Nations of Europe the ones who share the common currency (euro) is composed by 17 nations Germany and France are the leaders but this Union will brake, and there will be 10 nations left Germany, France, Finland, Luxembourg , Austria, Belgium, Holland, eslivaquia, eslovenia, Estonia, this are the ten toes of iron and clay who do not mix together!, and since their economy will dissolve one leader of one of this nation will lead the world to great destruction, then the Rock (vision of Daniel) will break the statute completely bringing his kingdom Y'suah.

(Here is another info of another leader from Europe bringing destruction acting as an antichrist in the final days before the coming of Mesiah)

But as I mentioned before who cares who is or what the mark is; let us walk in His commandments, don't accept a mark weather is the Magen David or the cross, may be, is just your finger print...

Where did I get this info?
The Most High had mercy on me giving me direct revelation, who said prophets don't exist today? Or Elohim stopped speaking to us?
May be you will not believe, well did any believe the prophets while they were alive? Is alright you doubt, you cannot just go by from what any weirdo comes and say, but study it, have I said something else from what bible says, or brought a new doctrine to worship Elohim?
May Adonai increase your wisdom.

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