Nazarene Space

Can anyone help me find places in the B'ris Chadashah where Y'shua` refferenced the Talmud? I know I've read some stuff that I recognized as Talmud, but can't remember where.

Views: 98

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

places?? Dude, everything Eeshua taught came from rabbi Hillel or Shammai and if not from them it came from the Essene Jewish oral Torah.

but to help you i can supply you with a nice list eventhough not all of it is shown on it;
http://www.yashanet.com/library/under7.htm
(just scroll down a little bit and you will find the list..)

Yeshua Himself could best be described as teaching as a Pharisee and holding favor with the Essenes. The latter was true because He had the approval of John the Baptist, who was a leader in the Essene community. John had Scriptural authority as well, as he was from the tribe of Levi and destined to be a priest.

It was because of Yeshua’s relationship with these two groups, Pharisees and Essenes, (who did not necessarily think highly of each other) that he was able to hold together a coalition of His own followers made up of people from each camp. They became known as the Nazarenes, or "the Way," and whom we also refer to in these studies as the early or original "Messianic community."
" Can anyone help me find places in the B'ris Chadashah where Y'shua` refferenced the Talmud? "

impossible. Talmud was only written starting about 250AD it was impossible for anyone then to quote from an unexisting book.

much of traditions thought, kept and talked about by Yeshua in his time were of course part of torah sheb'alpey (Oral Torah) which later came to be much of the contents in talmud centuries later. it will be very long story to list and discuss them here. even the calendar of the feast which Yeshua personally attended and kept then was determined by the rabbis on the force of oral torah, of which Moshiach himself affirmed by keeping the feast in that manner.

however, let us not be naive. if we understand WHAT it means to be Moshiach we do not expect him to quote from the teachers for whom He was meant to teach. Moshiach may affirm or correct some points of oral halachot or traditions but he being Moshiach NEED NOT derive his teaching authority from anyone of the rabbis: doing this will derogate his very office as the Teacher of teachers. take all messianic descriptions from the midrashim and you will get a total of Someone who Is and must act over and above any teacher of law, otherwise he is not moshiach at all.

hope this helps.
Yes, when I said Talmud, I was referring to the Oral Torah - I realize it was not written down at that time, but it was still in existence.
I love this statement,

"however, let us not be naive. if we understand WHAT it means to be Moshiach we do not expect him to quote from the teachers for whom He was meant to teach. Moshiach may affirm or correct some points of oral halachot or traditions but he being Moshiach NEED NOT derive his teaching authority from anyone of the rabbis: doing this will derogate his very office as the Teacher of teachers. take all messianic descriptions from the midrashim and you will get a total of Someone who Is and must act over and above any teacher of law, otherwise he is not moshiach at all."

AMEN!!!
Talmud in Sanhedrin 98b: “Ma Shmó? (מה שמו ¿What is His Name [Messiah´s Name]?)”

You find the answer in the question "Ma Shemó?" because that question has the numerical value (gematria) of His Name Yahoshua (391).


יהושע

70+300+6+5+10 = 391
" places?? Dude, everything Eeshua taught came from rabbi Hillel or Shammai"

an utter falsehood. Hillel and Shammai were teachers of Law: they never pretended to be teachers of Divine epiphany (or sod). do you want to know from where Yeshua got them? here listen from His own lips: "..but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." Jn.28:8 certainly not Hillel nor Shammai was his father.

" ...and if not from them it came from the Essene Jewish oral Torah."

oral? from which midrash it says that The Jewish Moshiach (the Greatest Man to walk on Earth) shall become no better than a parrot like the Amora'im whose business is nothing but to repeat and repeat what others are saying, throughout his days? don't be rediculous. the words from the mouth of the Moshiach are NOT the words of men but the words of G-d:
"I will raise up for them a prophet like you (Moses), from among their own people. I will put My words in his mouth and he will speak to them all that I command him." Tanakh, D'varim 18:18-19

it says "I command HIM" (the Moshiach, personally, in singular) but not "I command them" (the Beyt Diynim); the former is strictly of personal confidence, the latter an academic business which is not in the context of the passage.

it is always a happy thing to me knowing many netzarim hold in esteem our oral traditions, but let us do it without warping the real image of true Moshiach as he IS, or at least as He WAS held by our ancient teachers in the midrashim, let alone his clear description as can be gathered from the Law, Prophets and Psalms.


Serkan said:
places?? Dude, everything Eeshua taught came from rabbi Hillel or Shammai and if not from them it came from the Essene Jewish oral Torah.

but to help you i can supply you with a nice list eventhough not all of it is shown on it;
http://www.yashanet.com/library/under7.htm
(just scroll down a little bit and you will find the list..)

Yeshua Himself could best be described as teaching as a Pharisee and holding favor with the Essenes. The latter was true because He had the approval of John the Baptist, who was a leader in the Essene community. John had Scriptural authority as well, as he was from the tribe of Levi and destined to be a priest.

It was because of Yeshua’s relationship with these two groups, Pharisees and Essenes, (who did not necessarily think highly of each other) that he was able to hold together a coalition of His own followers made up of people from each camp. They became known as the Nazarenes, or "the Way," and whom we also refer to in these studies as the early or original "Messianic community."
beryl etanah said:
" places?? Dude, everything Eeshua taught came from rabbi Hillel or Shammai"

an utter falsehood. Hillel and Shammai were teachers of Law: they never pretended to be teachers of Divine epiphany (or sod). do you want to know from where Yeshua got them? here listen from His own lips: "..but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." Jn.28:8 certainly not Hillel nor Shammai was his father.

" ...and if not from them it came from the Essene Jewish oral Torah."

oral? from which midrash it says that The Jewish Moshiach (the Greatest Man to walk on Earth) shall become no better than a parrot like the Amora'im whose business is nothing but to repeat and repeat what others are saying, throughout his days? don't be rediculous. the words from the mouth of the Moshiach are NOT the words of men but the words of G-d:
"I will raise up for them a prophet like you (Moses), from among their own people. I will put My words in his mouth and he will speak to them all that I command him." Tanakh, D'varim 18:18-19

it says "I command HIM" (the Moshiach, personally, in singular) but not "I command them" (the Beyt Diynim); the former is strictly of personal confidence, the latter an academic business which is not in the context of the passage.

it is always a happy thing to me knowing many netzarim hold in esteem our oral traditions, but let us do it without warping the real image of true Moshiach as he IS, or at least as He WAS held by our ancient teachers in the midrashim, let alone his clear description as can be gathered from the Law, Prophets and Psalms.


Serkan said:
places?? Dude, everything Eeshua taught came from rabbi Hillel or Shammai and if not from them it came from the Essene Jewish oral Torah.

but to help you i can supply you with a nice list eventhough not all of it is shown on it;
http://www.yashanet.com/library/under7.htm
(just scroll down a little bit and you will find the list..)

Yeshua Himself could best be described as teaching as a Pharisee and holding favor with the Essenes. The latter was true because He had the approval of John the Baptist, who was a leader in the Essene community. John had Scriptural authority as well, as he was from the tribe of Levi and destined to be a priest.

It was because of Yeshua’s relationship with these two groups, Pharisees and Essenes, (who did not necessarily think highly of each other) that he was able to hold together a coalition of His own followers made up of people from each camp. They became known as the Nazarenes, or "the Way," and whom we also refer to in these studies as the early or original "Messianic community."

i know people want the Messiah to be totally "new" in his teaching just because he was Mshikha but you know his oral Torah just was not "new"...

http://www.yashanet.com/library/under7.htm
(just scroll down a little...)

but indeed (and even the Gospel literally says this) the fact that Mshikha had "heavenly authority" made him very different and distinct from the "other" teachers, so the Gospel says he was a teacher (rabbi) like all the others yet his authority was above all of them obviously..

Reply to Discussion

RSS

 

 

 

















 

LINKS

 

 

 

 

Badge

Loading…

© 2019   Created by James Trimm.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service