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Great thought provoking article Many issues with the Apocrypha

James
Many more issues and objections than you raised. I'm still sorting
Yeshua references the Old Testament: from Abel to Zechariah
Yeshua referenced the Jewish Old Testament canon from the beginning to the end and did not include the apocryphal in his reference. "From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of Yah; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation" (Luke 11:51).

"The traditional Jewish canon was divided into three sections (Law, Prophets, Writings), and an unusual feature of the last section was the listing of Chronicles out of historical order, placing it after Ezra-Nehemiah and making it the last book of the canon. In light of this, the words of Yeshua in Luke 11:50-51 reflect the settled character of the Jewish canon (with its peculiar order) already in his day. Messiah uses the expression "from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah," which appears troublesome since Zechariah was not chronologically the last martyr mentioned in the Bible (cf. Jer. 26:20-23). However, Zechariah is the last martyr we read of in the Old Testament according to Jewish canonical order (cf. II Chron. 24:20-22), which was apparently recognized by Yeshua and his hearers."1
This means that the same Old Testament canon, according to the Jewish tradition, is arranged differently than how we have it in the Protestant Bible today. This was the arrangement that Yeshua was referring to when he referenced Abel and Zechariah, the first and last people to have their blood shed -- as listed in the Old Testament Jewish canon. Obviously, Yeshua knew of the Apocrypha and was not including it in his reference.

Yeshua references the Old Testament: The Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms
Catholics sometimes respond by saying that the Old Testament is referred to in three parts, the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. It is these writings that are sometimes said to include the Apocrypha. But this designation is not found in the Bible. On the contrary, Yeshua referenced the Old Testament and designated its three parts as the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms, not as the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings.

"Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44)

Yeshua said all scripture is given by inspiration. What did he consider scripture? I have not come to a definite conclusion but I believe every book in KJ is from heaven. . But I believe Apocrypha are very important if Yah does not consider scripture because for to long has the church tried to understand scripture without these books,others and historical background set with a complete Jewish setting. Just because some book is found in the dead sea scrolls or other places gives it the stamp as scripture.

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Comment by James Trimm on November 23, 2009 at 7:14pm
For the record, the Apocrypha (except for 3rd and 4th Maccabees) were included in the original 1611 edition of the KJV and were taken out later, originally by printers trying to save money.

I agree with you about the Hebrew order of books and the three fold division. However we know nothing of the order of books in the Hebrew when the Apocrypha were part of the canon. It would appear that most or all of them were part of the KETUVIM (except perhaps for 2Esdras) and that they were before 2Chron. which was still the final book.

BTW Yeshua's reference to "Psalms" in Luke 24:44 is taken to be a reference to the KETUVIM, the first and largest book in the Ketuvim. As you pointed out the third section of Scripture fir Yeshua must have had 2Chron. as its final book.
Comment by GARY ATKINSON on November 23, 2009 at 10:33pm
Well I did not make myself very clear did I? The KJV copy I am referring too is a Thompson Chain Reference Edition given to me by my grandmother many years ago. I will say this about KJ, as error filled as it is; the sentence structure is the most beautiful I have ever read with musical and poetic connations that help bring on the Spirit of the word. I am doing my own translation just for me using KJ sentence structure and tweaking to Aramaic primacy the best I can. KJ is the most easily put to music and memorized. Thank you so much for your thought provoking subjects. We just cannot take anything for granted can we?
Comment by GARY ATKINSON on November 23, 2009 at 10:36pm
Is there any evidence in the Dead Sea Scrolls that would tell us what the Canon of scripture was at the time of Yeshua?

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