Nazarene Space

IS THANKSGIVING A PAGAN HOLIDAY?
By James Trimm


The Pilgrims were a splinter group from the fringes of the Puritan movement. Many of them were leaving a Britain which was too politically difficult for them, to start a “perfect” new world.

The first feast lasted three days when thay celebrated their first harvest in 1621,which, thanks to a little help from their native American friends, was abundant.

Thanksgiving as a “holiday” comes from a cross between a conventional harvest festival and the belief of the Pilgrim Fathers when, after serious hardship which had whittled their numbers down from 105 to 43, they finally realized their settlement was going to make it.

Thanksgiving was influenced in part by the English and continental European Harvest festivals popular in the Puritan movement, with churches decorated with cornucopias, pumpkins, corn, wheat sheaves, and other harvest bounty, English and European harvest hymns sung on Thanksgiving weekend and scriptural lections drawn from the biblical stories relating to the Jewish harvest festival of Sukkot.

President Abraham Lincoln proclaimed a national Thanksgiving Day, to be celebrated on the final Thursday in November 1863. U.S. Presidents annually declared a Thanksgiving Day each year on the final Thursday of November. In 1938 F.D.R. broke with this tradition, moving Thanksgiving to the next-to-last Thursday in November.

On October 6, 1941 the U.S. Legislature passed a joint resolution setting this last-Thursday date for the holiday beginning in 1942. But, in December of that year the Senate passed an amendment requiring that Thanksgiving be observed each year on the fourth Thursday of November (This was sometimes the last Thursday and sometimes the next to last). On December 26, 1941 F.D.R. signed the bill into law, for the first time making the date of Thanksgiving a matter of federal law.

Thanksgiving is not of pagan origin, it originates from the Puritan pilgrims who were influenced by the biblical harvest festival of Sukkot.

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Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 1, 2012 at 12:43am

The "American thanksgiving"

It Came from the Pilgrims.... Right??

Surely out of all the pagan holy-days, the “American thanksgiving” is ok to keep right? After all, it was started by the Indians & the Pilgrims all sitting down at one big table, ready to feast with fork and knife in hand singing “Kumbayah my LORD” or something? 

Right?


Well let’s do (just) a little digging on the subject and find out when and where it really started from, and if we as Yis-raw-Ail should have anything to do with it or not.


FIRST, WHAT DOES THE WORD OF YHWH TELL US?


{1st Meh-lekh-eem [1st Kings] 12:26-33}
26 And Yaw-roeb-awm said in his heart, Now shall the reign return to the house of Daw-veed:

27 If these people go up to do sacrifice in the House of YHWH at Yer-oo-shaw-lah-yim, then the heart of this people shall turn back to their aw-done Rekh-ab-awm king of Ye-hu-dah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rekh-ab-awm king of Ye-hu-dah.

28 So the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said to them, It is too much for you to go up to Yer-oo-shaw-lah-yim: see your El-o-heem, O Yis-raw-Ail, that brought you up out of the land of Mits-rah-yim.

29 And he set one in Bayth-Ail, and the other he put in Dahn.

30 And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before one, or the other, even in Dahn.

31 And he made a house of high places, and made chief rulers from the lowest of people, who were not from the sons of Lay-vee.

32 And Yaw-roeb-awm ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like the Appointed Time that is in Ye-hu-dah, 10 and he offered upon the altar. He did the same in Bayth-Ail, sacrificing to the calves that he had made: and he placed and appointed in Bayth-Ail the chief rules of the high places, which he had made.

33 So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bayth-Ail the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised from his own heart; and ordained an appointed time to the children of Yis-raw-Ail: and he offered upon the altar, and burned incense.


So what does all of the above have to do with “thanksgiving”? If “thanksgiving day” is supposed to be an “American celebration”, then why does Canada and other countries observe a “thanksgiving day” as well? Did you know in many different parts of the earth that it was called the “day of thanks” to many pagan deities of harvest. The names of the deity changed depending on the culture, but the one that was the most prominent is what most people, today, refer to as “Mother-Earth”.

“Thanksgiving” began with Yaw-roeb-awm, and later evolved into the “worship of Zeus” as “one of his pagan festivals”. Don’t believe it? Did you ever question where the so called “horn of plenty” came from? It is the “horn of Am-al-the-a” (the “goat deitis of nourishment”), when Zeus as an infant broke off her horn, which then miraculously filled with food & drink to feed Zeus as a baby! (Google “it”: “Cornucopia”. Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cornucopia )


The “American thanksgiving” was later moved by president Abraham Lincoln to the last Thurs’-day of November. But why? As always, Saw-TawN wants to disguise “his counterfeit feast days”. If ‘it’ was still held on the 15th day of the 8th month, it would be more evident that “it is (still) the pagan feast which Yaw-roeb-awm initiated”.

DID YHWH PUNISH YIS-RAW-AIL FOR CONTINUING IN –

“THE SINS OF YAW-ROEB-AWM”?


{1st Meh-lekh-eem [1st Kings] 15:29-30}
29 And it came to pass, when he reigned, that he smote all the house of Yaw-roeb-awm; he left not to Yaw-roeb-awm any offspring that breathed, until he had destroyed him, according to the saying of YHWH, which He spoke by His servant Akh-ee-yaw the Shee-lo-nite:

30 Because of “The Sins of Yaw-roeb-awm” which he sinned, and which he made Yis-raw-Ail sin, by his provocation by which he provoked YHWH El-o-heem of Yis-raw-Ail to anger.


{1st Meh-lekh-eem [1st Kings] 14:15-16}
15 For YHWH shall smite Yis-raw-Ail, as a reed is shaken in the water, and He shall root up Yis-raw-Ail out of this good land, which He gave to their fathers, and shall scatter them beyond the river, because they have made their groves, provoking YHWH to anger.

16 And He shall give Yis-raw-Ail up because of “The Sins of Yaw-roeb-awm”, who  did sin, and who made Yis-raw-Ail to sin. 

Why would you want to continue to do something that is one of the reasons that YHWH "...root[ed] up Yis-raw-Ail out of this good land..." and then "... scatter[ed] them beyond the river..."? The continuance of “The Sins of Yaw-roeb-awm” is one of the reasons that YHWH Scattered the northern Ten Tribes of Yis-raw-Ail in the First Place. If we want YHWH’s favor (again), don't you think we need to stop partaking in “The Sins of Yaw-roeb-awm”?


BUT WASN'T THE REAL “SIN OF YAW-ROEB-AWM”:
“THE WORSHIP OF BAH-AL”? ANSWER: YES & NO!


{2nd Meh-lekh-eem [2nd Kings] 3:2-3}
2 And he worked evil in the sight of YHWH; but not like his father, and like his mother: for he put away the image of Bah-al that his father had made.

3 Nevertheless he cleaved to “The Sins of Yaw-roeb-awm” the son of Neb-awt, who made Yis-raw-Ail to sin; he departed not from them. 

Even though Yeh-ho-rawm son of Akh-awb put away the image of Bah-al, it states that he still cleaved to “The Sins of Yaw-roeb-awm”. “The Sins of Yaw-roeb-awm” was creating a “man made appointed time”/ “feast day”. It was a “feast” that YHWH did not ordain, and the observance and traditions that go along with this man made “feast day”, had led Yis-raw-Ail astray from the love of and obedience to YHWH.


BUT IF WE KEEP THE TRUE SUKKOT, THERE ISN’T ANYTHING
WRONG WITH KEEPING “THANKSGIVING” ALSO, IS THERE?


Ok, let’s use Equal Weights and Measures:


If you keep “Pesach/Passover”, “Chag Matzoth”, “Shavuot, Sukkoth”, “Chanukah/Feast of Lights” (not the paganized version) etc. …


If you keep all of YHWH’ “Appointed Feasts”, would you say it would be “ok” to also keep:“(January 1st) new-year’ day”, “Valentine’-day”, “Easter”, “Halloween”, and of course “christ-mass” (a Mass originally created to celebrate the death of christ Tammuz)?


What’s that? You wouldn’t keep those days because they are all “pagan days of worship”. Well, then why do you believe that “thanksgiving day” is any different?


There are many, many, other Scriptures which speak of Yis-raw-Ail continuing in “The Sins of Yaw-roeb-awm”. And being chastened by YHWH because of “it”. As stated before in 1st Meh-lekh-eem Chapter 14, this is one of the reasons that YHWH Scattered The Northern Ten Tribes in the first place. “Thanksgiving day” was originally instituted by Yaw-roeb-awm, and was held in observance (“idol worship”) to a “pagan deity” (Bah-al), just like all the other “pagan holy-days”. “It” transpired down through the generations unto “The worship of Zeus” as well as many other “pagan deities”.


We, as Yis-raw-Ail, need to learn that we do not have any business associating with anything that had come form “idol worship”. YHWH has His “Appointed Days” which He Commands us to keep. We don’t need any of “the feast days from pagan religions”, no matter whatever form they’ve evolved into.


We should stop trying to come up with excuses on why we should want to keep “thanksgiving”, which was but only one of “The Sin of Yaw-roeb-awm”. Put YHWH First – BEFORE ALL!


If you must eat turkey only once a year as a “family dinner” then do it at a “Proper Feast Time” such as during the True “Fall Harvest Feast” within the 7 days of “Sukkoth” during the 7th Month. Or perhaps during any one of the other of YHWH “Appointed Times”/”Feast Days”. Keep in mind that you should never use a “pagan holy-day” as an excuse to eat this clean bird. Nor should you limit eating this clean bird to only once a year! Eat turkey anytime of the year! And again if you want to make something special about eating a turkey dinner then eat it within one of the “Appointed Feasts” of YHWH'.


Shalom, awmane [Strong’ Hebrew lexicon: #543].

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 1, 2012 at 12:58am

The PDF version of the above thread on THE SINS OF YAW-ROEB-AWM can be found @: 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/110747889/i02-Thanks-Giving-Holy-day?in_c...

Comment by James Trimm on November 1, 2012 at 1:01am

Actually the first Channukah was a belated Sukkot celebration, so we have a precedence for keeping a feast that is modeled after Sukkot in addition to Sukkot itself.

Comment by David Brigham on November 1, 2012 at 6:18am

I would suggest that Purim (Esther 9::1-23) shows that additional joyful celebrations (to commemorate an event of salvation and blessing) are allowed; the Apocrypha (in the Maccabeans notably - not only Chanukkah, but also feasts of III Macc. vi. 36 and Philo, "Vita Mosis," ii. § 7) and Dead Sea Scrolls (and Misnah) mention a few more of such added festivities among the jews.  It becomes bad if (a) it is of pagan origin with derived symbols, (b) if such festivals are put on the same level as (or even replace) the Biblical Holy Days (moedim). So I tend to agree with James that Thanksgiving seems allowed for Americans (like Purim for the jews), if no cornucopia stuff is added. Of course it is a similar question whether birthdays (and similar)  are allowed - those are also often disallowed on the basis of a 'moedim only' rule which does not have a firm basis IMO. I would make the analogy with fasting: on the one moed it is obligatory and of special meaning, but it does not mean that fasting is disallowed at other occassions  of repentance or morning etc (even collectively, cp. Neh 9:1). Same thus goes for being joyful,  

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 1, 2012 at 7:34am

Might as well keep christmas too, just don't have a tree, etc...

Even Halloween and call it by another name, pass out candy and pretend that it is no longer pagan.

What about Easter, if one does not use egg or tell silly stories about rabbits and such?

David,

just because one does not replace the Feast Days of YHWH, does not give them permission to partake in pagan feastivals even if they do their best to unpaganize, or even Americanise, them.

James himself admits that ThanksGiving did not originate here in America, so to try and call it an American Holiday is absurd. It originated from  Yaw-roeb-awm's sinful nature. A spade is a spade.

 

Purim and Hag Yeshua are both in the Scriptures and are appropriate for all believer, as there is not one Torah for Yehudeem and one for gentile Americans. When we become believers we are to leave behind the pagan ways and adhere to Torah observance, wether we were Yehudeem or gentile before conversion. One converted we are no longer gentiles  but instead we become Yisra-Ail. And yes Thanks Giving is in the Scriptures as well referred to as Yaw-roeb-awm's Sin!!! And sin by any other name is still a rose ... I mean sin. OWE VEY!!!

 

 

 

Comment by David Brigham on November 1, 2012 at 7:53am

Obviously, Christmas, Halloween, and Easter do not fit my points (a) and (b), also not if de-paganized! You try to say Thanksgiving does not fit (a) either, but you have no historical case (for a pagan origin), that's where we disagree. Of course Purim does not fit (b), so even if appropriate to celebrate, that's not the same as mandatory - for it's not one of the moedim and should not be presented as one. 

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 1, 2012 at 8:32am

No historical basis for a pagan festival my foot. Where you been hiding?

 

{1st Meh-lekh-eem [1st Kings] 12:26-33}
26 And Yaw-roeb-awm said in his heart, Now shall the reign return to the house of Daw-veed:

27 If these people go up to do sacrifice in the House of YHWH at Yer-oo-shaw-lah-yim, then the heart of this people shall turn back to their aw-done Rekh-ab-awm king of Ye-hu-dah, and they shall kill me, and go again to Rekh-ab-awm king of Ye-hu-dah.

28 So the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said to them, It is too much for you to go up to Yer-oo-shaw-lah-yim: see your El-o-heem, O Yis-raw-Ail, that brought you up out of the land of Mits-rah-yim.

29 And he set one in Bayth-Ail, and the other he put in Dahn.

30 And this thing became a sin: for the people went to worship before one, or the other, even in Dahn.

31 And he made a house of high places, and made chief rulers from the lowest of people, who were not from the sons of Lay-vee.

32 And Yaw-roeb-awm ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like the Appointed Time that is in Ye-hu-dah, 10 and he offered upon the altar. He did the same in Bayth-Ail, sacrificing to the calves that he had made: and he placed and appointed in Bayth-Ail the chief rules of the high places, which he had made.

33 So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bayth-Ail the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised from his own heart; and ordained an appointed time to the children of Yis-raw-Ail: and he offered upon the altar, and burned incense.

 

The ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA, 1980, Volume 5, tells of Harvest Home:

"HARVEST HOME, also called Ingathering,traditional English harvest festival, celebrated from antiquity and surviving to modern times in isolated regions. Participants celebrate the last day of harvest by singing, shouting, and decorating the village with boughs. The cailleac, or last sheaf of corn, which represents the SPIRIT of the field, is made into a HARVEST DOLL and drenched with water as a RAIN CHARM. This sheaf is saved until spring planting.
   
The ANCIENT FESTIVAL also included the symbolic MURDER of the grain spirit, as well as rites for expelling the devil."

 

CELEBRATIONS: THE COMPREHENSIVE BOOK OF AMERICAN HOLIDAYS, by Robert J. Myers, 1972, pages 271-272, tells us:

"The Pilgrims, who in 1621 observed our initial Thanksgiving holiday, were not a people especially enthusiastic about the celebration of festivals. In fact, these austere and religious settlers of America would have been dismayed had they known of the long and popular history of harvest festivals, of which their Thanksgiving was only the latest. It seems that wherever man has tilled the soil and urged his crops into fruition, he has paid homage to the heavenly being who has permitted him such good fortune. And he has taken care by means of sacrifices to ensure the continued beneficence of the Supreme Power.
   
The harvest festival, with its attendant rites, seems to have spread out from a relatively small area of land, from Egypt and Syria and Meso-potamia. The first or the last sheaf of wheat was offered to the "GREAT MOTHER", or the "Mother of the Wheat" for the earth-power was essentially a feminine force. Astarte was the Earth Mother of the ancient Semites; to the Phrygians she was Semele; under the name of Demeter she was worshiped by the Greeks at the famous Eleusinian Mysteries; Ceres, the Roman goddess of corn, presided over the October Cerelia."

 

OUR WONDERFUL WORLD, by GROLIER Incorporated, New York, 1966, Volume 17, page 220, tells us of The Harvest Festivals.

"THE HARVEST FESTIVALS.
We often think of Thanksgiving as an American holiday, begun by the Pilgrims in Plymouth in 1621. At that time, so the story runs, the survivors among the Mayflower passengers celebrated their first harvest in the New World.
Actually a thanksgiving for the annual harvest is one of the oldest holidays known to mankind, though celebrated on different dates. In Chaldea, in ancient Egypt, and in Greece, the harvest festival was celebrated with great rejoicing. The Hindus and the Chinese observe the completed harvest with a holiday. And the Jews celebrate the gathering of the crops. From Holidays Around the World, by Joseph Gaer, by permission of Little, Brown & Co. Copyright, 1953, by Joseph Gaer. Revised by editor. 1959.

 

The Romans celebrated their Thanksgiving early in October. The holiday was dedicated to the goddess of the harvest, Ceres, and the holiday was called Cerelia. (That is where the word "cereal"comes from).

FROM ROME TO THE NEW WORLD
The Christians took over the Roman holiday and it became well established in England, where some of the Roman customs and rituals for this day were observed long after the Roman Empire had disappeared.
    In England the "
harvest home" has been observed continuously for centuries. The custom was to select a HARVEST QUEEN for this holiday. She was decorated with the grain of their fields and the fruit of their trees. On THANKSGIVING DAY she was paraded through the streets in a carriage drawn by white horses. This was a remnant of the Roman ceremonies in honor of Ceres. But the English no longer thought of Ceres or cared much about her. They went to church on this day and sang their Thanksgiving songs.
    The Pilgrims also introduced the custom of eating turkey on Thanksgiving Day, for they found wild turkeys in great numbers.
    The merriment of the
harvest festivals is older than recorded human history. And the merriment of the harvest holiday is likely to continue, the world over, as long as men obtain their food from the earth."

 

 

The ThanksGiving Holy day is a fall harvest festival in pagan w(h)or(e)ship!!! One can not clean up a pagan ritual and make it clean enough to worship YHWH.

 

I Corinthians 10:19-22—
19 What am I saying, then? That
a el is anything, or what is offered to elohim is anything?
20 But
I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to YHWH; and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons.
21
You cannot drink the cup of YHWH and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of YHWH's table and of the table of demons.
22 Do we provoke YHWH to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?

 

The Apostle Shaul has told us emphatically that the things the Gentiles sacrifice are sacrificed to the demons, and we are NOT to have any fellowship with this DEMON w(h)o(e)rship.

Romans 12:2—
And
do not be conformed to the pattern of this world; but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may  prove what is the righteous, and acceptable, and perfect will of YHWH.

Yaaqob 1:27—
Religion that is pure and undefiled before YHWH our Father, is this: To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 1, 2012 at 8:34am

 

YHWH gave us a Fall harvest Festival!!! We need not pretend that it is not enough.

Comment by Lew White on November 1, 2012 at 9:03am

I choose to thank Yahuah each day, but I agree with James, that the national observance originates in a completely spontaneous "thankfulness" springing from the hearts of a small group that was spared extinction long ago.  It's legitimate for a nation to give thanks to our Creator for ending a war, such as the Civil War.

We mustn't turn everything into an argument, this nation needs to turn to Yahuah, and if we can share the love of His message to the lost through this civil day of thanksgiving to Him, then we should exploit it for all it's worth.  Giving thanks should never come under attack, and certainly no one is forcing anyone to give thanks.  Darkness and Light are determined by one aspect:  LOVE.  If we cause strife, division, and tear one another apart, we lack love.  Thank you for not being judgmental, thank you for being kind, gentle, loving, and patient with all.  Overcome evil with good.     

Comment by James Trimm on November 1, 2012 at 9:06am

"the national observance originates in a completely spontaneous "thankfulness" springing from the hearts of a small group that was spared extinction long ago." - Lew White

That from the author of Fossilized Customs

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