Nazarene Space

Nimrod's pagan traditions have survived to this day

 

 

{2 Thessalonians 2:13} 

But we are bound to give thanks always to Eloheem for you, brethren beloved of YHWH, because

Eloheem hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the Truth:

 

{Yo-Khawnawn [John] 4:17} 

Even the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him:

but ye know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.

 

{Yo-Khawnawn [John] 16:13} 

But when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;

but whatsoever he shall hear, shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

 

{1st Yo-Khawnawn [1 John] 4:6} 

We are of Ailoheem: he that knows Eloheem hears us; he that is not of Eloheem hears not us.

Hereby know we the Spirit of Truth, and the spirit of error.

 

{Yo-Khawnawn [John] 4:23-24} 

But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth:

for the Father seeks such to worship Him.

Eloheem is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship in Spirit and in Truth.

 

{Ephesians 5:9} 

For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and Truth;

 

{1st Yo-Khawnawn [1 John] 5:6} 

This is He that came by water and blood, even Yehoshuah the Anointed One;

not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bears witness, because the Spirit is Truth.

 

{Act 17:11} 

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica,

in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind,

and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

{Mattith-Yahu [Matthew] 7:7} 

Ask, and it shall be given you;

seek, and ye shall find;

knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

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Comment by John on November 13, 2012 at 1:19am

Truth seekers can easily see the pagan roots of Christian traditions, but not so easily see the deceptive nature of Jewish traditions.  This is why Yahshua never spoke a word about pagan traditions, but spoke quite negatively about the Jewish traditions.  Christian pagan traditions, like Jewish traditions, are both man-made and therefore come from the imaginations of fallible men.  Jewish tradition is most dangerous because it is not so obvious as Christian tradition.

The best counterfeits are ones that are 99% like the real thing.  Rat poison is 99% perfectly good food, but it is the 1% that will kill you.  Evolutionary theory is mixed in science textbooks to give it the appearance of being science itself.  The majority of the world believes in evolution because we are indoctrinated from pre-school to believe in it.

It is hard for people to distinguish Judaism from the Truth contained in the written Word.  I am writing this letter to you because you seem to be a Truth seeker.  Yahweh tells us over and over not to add to His Word nor take away from it, but Judaism has a long history of doing so.  Yahweh tells us over and over again what His feast days are, but Judaism in their arrogancy adds their own man-made feast days.  On top of that, they do not keep the feasts of Yahweh as prescribed in His written Word.  They take His written Word and change it through their traditions.  I hope that you will be faithful to our Heavenly Father Yahweh and remain true to His Word.

Shalom!

Comment by James Trimm on November 13, 2012 at 2:17am

1.  Why do you assume that all Jewish traditions are "man made"?

2. Why do you conclude that all man made traditions are "deceptive".  Yeshua only spoke out against "traditions of men" that conflicted with "The Word of Elohim" and says nothing against "traditions of men" that do not conflict with the "Word of Elohim."  Among the "traditions of men" Yeshua classes that "judgments of the elders" who were empowered to make judgements:

We read in the Torah:

 

9 And you shall come unto the cohanim, the L’vi’im, and unto the judge that shall be in
those days, and you shall inquire. And they shall declare unto you the sentence of
judgment.
10 And you shall do, according to the tenor of the sentence, which they shall declare
unto you from that place which YHWH shall choose, and you shall observe to do
according to all that they shall teach you.
11 According to the Torah which they shall teach you, and according to the judgment
which they shall tell you, you shall do. You shall not turn aside from the sentence which
they shall declare unto you, to the right hand nor to the left.
(Deut. 17:9-11 HRV)

You attack "Judaism".  The earliest known usage of the term “Judaism” is in 2Maccabees 2:21 in which the Maccabees are called “those who strove zealously on behalf of ‘Judaism’” (around 180 BCE). First century writers such as Philo and Josephus used the term “Judaism” to refer to this faith.

Most importantly Paul calls his own faith “Judaism” in Gal. 1:13-14:

For you have heard of my way of life that was from before,
which was in Judaism that I especially persecuted the assembly
of Eloah and was destroying it. And I excelled in Judaism more
than many of my peers who were my countrymen and I was
especially zealous in the teaching of my fathers.

(Some translations have “religion of the Jews” here but both the Aramaic and Greek clearly have “Judaism”)

Now the question must be asked, is Paul comparing his past life in Judaism to his current life in some new religion, or is he comparing his past life in Judaism to his current life in Judaism? Let us turn to other things Paul said to find out:

Neither against the Jewish Torah, nor against the Temple…
have I offended in anything at all.
(Acts 25:8)

…I have done nothing against the people or the customs
of our fathers…
(Acts 28:17)

…Brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees…
(Acts 23:6)

Clearly Paul called his own religion “Judaism”.

Finally it is very important that Yeshua is never recorded to have objected to the fact that his own faith, was in his own time, commonly called “Judaism”. Never is he recorded as having said “Ow yea… and would you please stop calling this ‘Judaism’”.

This brings us to the encounter between Yeshua and an Ephraimite woman (a Samaritan). There is no doubt that this Samaritan woman is to be counted as an Ephraimite because she refers to "our father Jacob" (Jn. 4:12) and Yeshua makes no attempt to correct her on this point. (Note she mentions the two different places of worship on different mountains in 4:20). Then Yeshua tells her her religion is false and that the Jewish religion is the one true faith saying:

"You worship what you do not know.
We worship what we know,
because the deliverance is of the Yehudim.
"But the hour is coming, and now is,
when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth,
for the Father also does seek such to worship Him.
(Jn. 4:22-23 - The Scriptures Version)


Yeshua makes it clear that the "true worshipers" are the Jews who practice
Judaism "in spirit and truth" as opposed to an Ephraimite religion. ("in
spirit and truth" - a reference to the Torah - see Ps. 119:142, 151; Ezek. 36:27).


Moreover Paul writes:


"...what is the advantage of the Jew? Or what is the profit of
circumcision? Much in everything!..."
(Rom. 3:1-2)

Comment by James Trimm on November 13, 2012 at 2:24am

In fact I will add that the very concept that there would be a special figure to come known as "The Messiah" who would fulfill the prophecies abut the Prophet like Moses (Deut. 18:18-19) and the Servant (Is. 53) etc. is itself Jewish Tradition.  Declaring Yeshua is "The Messiah" and dismissing Jewish tradition is an oxymoron.

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 13, 2012 at 4:13am

Awmain James I whole heartily agree. We are to become Yehudeem in heart (i.e. - circumcised in our minds to become Yehudeem spiritually). James thanks for helping clarify these truths, awmain.

And yes, John, some have a hard time differentiating between Jewish traditions that were added and those that are commanded. But as James stated it is Yehudaism that we are to become circumcise (our minds whole heartily) unto.

I to pray that I will be able to be faithful unto YHWH and His Word, and also that I will continue to learn daily the truths thereof. Thank you for the encouragement John, and may you be able to do the same, awmain.

May,
YHWH bless thee and keep thee;
YHWH cause His face to shine on thee, and be gracious to thee;
YHWH lift up His face to thee, and give thee shalom.

Your Brother in Y'hoshuah The Anointed One.

 

Comment by John on November 13, 2012 at 9:07pm

James said, "1.  Why do you assume that all Jewish traditions are "man made"?"

Answer:  Jewish tradition takes the pure unadulterated Word of Yahweh and then ADD their own spin on it.  Like I said before, rat poison is 99% good food, but it's the 1% poison that will kill you.  Yahweh clearly stated in His Word, "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it."

 

James said, "2. Why do you conclude that all man made traditions are "deceptive".  Yeshua only spoke out against "traditions of men" that conflicted with "The Word of Elohim" and says nothing against "traditions of men" that do not conflict with the "Word of Elohim."  Among the "traditions of men" Yeshua classes that "judgments of the elders" who were empowered to make judgements..."

Answer:  Like I said above, Jewish tradition takes the unadulterated Word of Yahweh and then change it so it is no longer pure.  When we add or take away from the Word of Yahweh, then we place ourselves in the position of Elohim which is blasphemy.  The judgments of Yahweh are contained in His wriiten Word and the caretakers of the written Word in the days of Moses were the priests and judges.  Not everyone could afford to have their own personal copy of Yahweh's written Word, so the people would have to inquire from the priests and judges.

 

James said, "You attack "Judaism".  The earliest known usage of the term “Judaism” is in 2Maccabees 2:21 in which the Maccabees are called “those who strove zealously on behalf of ‘Judaism’” (around 180 BCE). First century writers such as Philo and Josephus used the term “Judaism” to refer to this faith."

Answer:  I agree with you that the Maccabees fought for the man-made religion of Judaism.  They should have been fighting for their faith in Yahweh and His pure unadulterated Word.

 

James said, "Most importantly Paul calls his own faith “Judaism” in Gal. 1:13-14:
For you have heard of my way of life that was from before,
which was in Judaism that I especially persecuted the assembly
of Eloah and was destroying it. And I excelled in Judaism more
than many of my peers who were my countrymen and I was
especially zealous in the teaching of my fathers."

Answer:  Paul admits that when he was a fervent follower of the man-made religion of Judaism that he "persecuted the assembly of Eloah and was destroying it."  We should come out of Judaism and be in "the assembly of Eloah".  Judaism is a blind man-made religious system that couldn't recognize their own Messiah. and still don't for the most part.

 

James said, "Finally it is very important that Yeshua is never recorded to have objected to the fact that his own faith, was in his own time, commonly called “Judaism”. Never is he recorded as having said “Ow yea… and would you please stop calling this ‘Judaism’”."

Answer:  Yahshua never said that we should become members of Judaism.  In fact Yahshua did the contrary and said, "How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?  Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the DOCTRINE of the Pharisees(Rabbis) and of the Sadducees."

 

James said, "Yeshua makes it clear that the "true worshipers" are the Jews who practice
Judaism "in spirit and truth" as opposed to an Ephraimite religion. ("in
spirit and truth" - a reference to the Torah - see Ps. 119:142, 151; Ezek. 36:27)."

Answer:  Yahshua never said that true worshippers are the Jews who practice Judaism in spirit and truth.  It is amazing how you so easily try to add to what Yahshua actually said.  Here is what He actually said, "the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth."  Notice, He never said anything about the true worshippers being Jews who practice Judaism.

 

James said, "In fact I will add that the very concept that there would be a special figure to come known as "The Messiah" who would fulfill the prophecies abut the Prophet like Moses (Deut. 18:18-19) and the Servant (Is. 53) etc. is itself Jewish Tradition.  Declaring Yeshua is "The Messiah" and dismissing Jewish tradition is an oxymoron."

Answer:  The written Word  is full of the concept of the Messiah, starting with Genesis onward.  Actually, using the term, "The Messiah", is very limiting.

Comment by James Trimm on November 13, 2012 at 10:57pm

John said

"Jewish tradition takes the pure unadulterated Word of Yahweh and then ADD their own spin on it."

You say this dogmatically but you fail to support the claim with logic.  You are guilty of circular thinking.  There are two kinds of Oral Torah (1) Oral Torah From Sinai and (2) Judgements of the Elders.  

Now Oral Torah from Sinai is not an addition to the Torah, because it was, along with the written Torah, ALWAYS part of the Torah.  In this case your false logic seems to say "We know Jewish tradition is false because it is an addition, and we know it is an addition, because it is false."

The other kind of Oral Torah are the judgments from the Elders.  These are not an "addition" to the Torah, because the Torah itself authorizes these judgments and deems them as "Torah":

9 And you shall come unto the cohanim, the L’vi’im, and unto the judge that shall be in
those days, and you shall inquire. And they shall declare unto you the sentence of
judgment.
10 And you shall do, according to the tenor of the sentence, which they shall declare
unto you from that place which YHWH shall choose, and you shall observe to do
according to all that they shall teach you.
11 According to the Torah which they shall teach you, and according to the judgment
which they shall tell you, you shall do. You shall not turn aside from the sentence which
they shall declare unto you, to the right hand nor to the left.
(Deut. 17:9-11 HRV)

Also Yeshua actually said:

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
(John 4:22-23)

 I cannot see how anyone can miss that Yeshua is saying that "Jews" are "the true worshippers" and that Yeshua counts himself among us.

Comment by John on November 14, 2012 at 5:55pm

James said, ""Jewish tradition takes the pure unadulterated Word of Yahweh and then ADD their own spin on it."

You say this dogmatically but you fail to support the claim with logic.  You are guilty of circular thinking.

Now Oral Torah from Sinai is not an addition to the Torah, because it was, along with the written Torah, ALWAYS part of the Torah.  In this case your false logic seems to say "We know Jewish tradition is false because it is an addition, and we know it is an addition, because it is false."

The other kind of Oral Torah are the judgments from the Elders.  These are not an "addition" to the Torah, because the Torah itself authorizes these judgments and deems them as "Torah"..."

Reply:  I am not guilty of circular reasoning, but I am guilty of actually believing the Word of Yahweh at face value, unlike you.  Yahweh says to not add to His Word.  You and all the other Pharisees and Rabbis add to His Word with YOUR ORAL LAW.  Yahweh Never had an ORAL LAW.  The burder of proof is on you to prove from the written Word of Scripture that there is an ORAL LAW.  No where in Scripture is an ORAL LAW mentioned nor even hinted at.  Yahweh makes it very plain that we are not to add to His Word:

1)  Deuteronomy 4:2 (KJV)

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

2)  Deuteronomy 12:32 (KJV)

What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

3)  Proverbs 30:6 (KJV)

Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

4)  Revelation 22:18 (KJV)

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

James said, "Also Yeshua actually said:
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippersshall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. (John 4:22-23)

I cannot see how anyone can miss that Yeshua is saying that "Jews" are "the true worshippers" and that Yeshua counts himself among us."

 

Reply:  Thank you for actually getting the quote from Scripture correct this time and not adding extra words into the text.  It is true that "salvation is of the Jews", but this is a general statement.  The written Word of our Creator Yahweh was entrusted to the Jews, but this does not mean that all Jews have obtained salvation just because they are Jews.  You cannot violate the Word of Yahweh by adding your own man-made laws to torah because this is a direct violation of Deut. 4:2 and Deut. 12:32.  Also, the original topic being discussed was Judaism and not Jews.  Please try to stay on topic next time.

Comment by James Trimm on November 14, 2012 at 6:52pm

John Said:

>You and all the other Pharisees and Rabbis add to His Word with YOUR ORAL LAW.  

"I am a Pharisee" - Paul (Acts 23:6)

John said:

>Yahweh Never had an ORAL LAW.  
>The burder of proof is on you to prove from the written Word of Scripture
>that there is an ORAL LAW.  No where in Scripture is an ORAL LAW
>mentioned nor even hinted at.

Mentioned:

1: Give ear, O my people, to my Torah: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
2: I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
3: Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.
4: We will not hide them from their children, telling to the generation to come the praises of YHWH, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he has done.
(Ps. 78:1-4)

Hinted at:

For example the written Torah says not to go out of ones “place” on the Sabbath (Ex. 16:29) but just what does this mean? If the Sabbath starts and I am in the latrine, must I stay there until it is over? If I am in my home and the Sabbath starts, must I wait until the Sabbath end to go out to the latrine? Does it mean I cannot leave my house? my yard? my city? Surely the ancient Hebrews (our forefathers) asked Moses what this commandment meant. Did Moses shrug his shoulders and say “heck if I know”, or was this part of the information he also received on Mount Sinai?

Another example can be found in Deut. 12:21 which tells us that if we live to far from the Temple and need to slaughter an animal to eat, YHWH says we may do so as long as we do it “as I [YHWH] have commanded you”. But there are no instructions for the ritual slaughter of an animal in the written Torah. This commandment of the written Torah must be alluding to an oral companion to the written Torah.

One can give many more examples. What does it mean not to “work” on the Shabbat? what constitutes “work”? How does one “celebrate” the Shabbat (Ex. 31:16)? What constitutes a “Bill of Divorcement” (Deut. 24:1f) what is it supposed to say?

When Ezra read the Torah to the people in Nehemiah 8:1-8, he and the Levites also “gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading” (8:7-8). They gave them an oral companion to the written text:

1: And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spoke unto Ezra the scribe to bring the Book of the Torah of Moses, which YHWH had commanded to Israel.
2: And Ezra the priest brought the Torah before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.
3: And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the Book of the Torah.
4: And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.
5: And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people;) and when he opened it, all the people stood up:
6: And Ezra blessed YHWH, the great Elohim. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped YHWH with their faces to the ground.
7: Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the Torah: and the people stood in their place.
8: So they read in the Book in the Torah of Elohim distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.
(Nehemiah 8:1-8)

Comment by John on November 15, 2012 at 12:59pm

1)  James put, ""I am a Pharisee" - Paul (Acts 23:6)"

Answer:  Yes, Paul was a Pharisee and while he was a Pharisee, he "persecuted the assembly of Eloah and was destroying it."  The intention of Paul at this moment was to save his skin by causing division.  He was not taking this moment to declare his pride in being a Pharisee.

We should remember what Yahshua said in order to keep things in perspective.

Matthew 16:6 (KJV)

Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven(DOCTRINE ie. ORAL LAW) of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

We should also remember:

Luke 7:30 (KJV)

But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Also,  Yahshua told us that our righteousness is to exceed that of the Pharisees.

Matthew 5:20 (KJV)

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

2)  James put, "Mentioned:

1: Give ear, O my people, to my Torah: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
2: I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
3: Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.
4: We will not hide them from their children, telling to the generation to come the praises of YHWH, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he has done.
(Ps. 78:1-4)"

Answer:  The whole context of this psalm is summed up in the very first verse:  "1: Give ear, O my people, TO MY TORAH: incline your ears TO THE WORDS OF MY MOUTH."

We are to listen to Yahweh's Trorah in the Scriptures and not to a man-made oral torah.  We are to listen to the Words of Yahweh in the Scriptures and not to a man-made oral torah.

Psalm 78 is reflecting back to the Torah, especially the book of Exodus.

 

3)  James put, "Hinted at:

For example the written Torah says not to go out of ones “place” on the Sabbath (Ex. 16:29) but just what does this mean?"

Answer:  All we have to do is look at the context of Yahweh's written Scripture to find our answer.  We do not need to go to some guru to get an answer based on opinions.  The answer is in verse 27 when the people went out of their place to gather manna on the Sabbath.

Exodus 16:27And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.

Verse 14 tells us where the manna was found.

Exodus 16:14And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.

So, from the context of the written word of Scripture we know that the people were not to go into the wilderness to gather manna, but were to remain where they were.

And the written Word of Yahweh does not leave us in the dark of where the people were either.  In verse 13 it tells us where the "place" is.

Exodus 16:13And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.

You can see that the "place" where the people were was the camp.

 

4)  James put, "Another example can be found in Deut. 12:21 which tells us that if we live to far from the Temple and need to slaughter an animal to eat, YHWH says we may do so as long as we do it “as I [YHWH] have commanded you”."

Answer:  The answer, once again, is in the text itself in verses 23-28.

Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.

24Thou shalt not eat it; thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water.

25Thou shalt not eat it; that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the Lord.

26Only thy holy things which thou hast, and thy vows, thou shalt take, and go unto the place which the Lord shall choose:

27And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the Lord thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the Lord thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh.

28Observe and hear all these words which I command thee, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee for ever, when thou doest that which is good and right in the sight of the Lord thy God.

So we see that we do not need to refer to some man-made oral law, but simply follow Yahweh's commands given right in His written Word.

5)  James put, "One can give many more examples. What does it mean not to “work” on the Shabbat? what constitutes “work”? How does one “celebrate” the Shabbat (Ex. 31:16)?"

Answer:  You are straining at the gnats and swallowing the camels now.  The written Word of Yahweh is packed full with instructions about what work is and how to celebrate the Sabbath.

TOO BE CONTINUED...YOU LIKE TO SPEW OUT A LOT DON'T YOU...LOL

Comment by James Trimm on November 15, 2012 at 5:10pm

I will respond to the rest later but Paul said in Acts 23:6 "I AM a Pharisee" not "I WAS a Pharisee". 

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