Nazarene Space

Patriarchinity Chapter 7: Divine Kind vs. "The God-Man"

Patriarchinity chapter 7:
Divine Kind vs. "The God-Man"

By Chris Jacob (Yaacov) Schaefer ©2009


What is the essence of Yehoshua? How did His earthly form as a little baby come to be? From those two questions comes forth a third: what are the implications for born-agian believers?

Before we get started, let’s examine the varied beliefs of Christianity regarding these matters. [To avoid blasphemy, I’ll be using the westernized mis-transliterations for hypothetical scenarios.]
Here are the conclusions that Christianity is limited to:
1. that Mary[sic] had sexual union with God [sic] the Father.
2. that Mary [sic] had sexual union with God [sic] the Holy Spirit [sic].
3. that Mary [sic] had sexual union with both God [sic] the Father and God [sic] the Holy Spirit [sic]
4. that Mary [sic] did not have sexual union with either God [sic] the Father nor God [sic] the Holy Spirit [sic] but through non-sexual means God’s [sic] sperm/seed (whatever that may be) combined with Mary’s [sic] egg via the Holy Spirit [sic].

There are several troubling problems with the Christian viewpoint if it is honestly thought through. With option 1 and 2. is there is no marriage between Mary [sic] and her Maker, (whoever that might be). Mary [sic] is never spoken of as the wife of the Holy Spirit [sic] nor as the wife of God [sic] the Father. In Scripture, sexual relations without marriage are categorized as fornication or adultery, which would be sin. Sin of course is something that the Creator would never do.

But let’s pretend for a minute that a divine-human marriage happened but it wasn’t overtly recorded. After Mary [sic] is pregnant, she marries Joseph [sic]. So if we assume that Mary [sic] is already married to God [sic] through some unmentioned marriage covenant, if she had then married Joseph [sic], she would then be (at best) a practitioner of polyandry, since there was no divorce recorded between Mary [sic] and God [sic]. Polyandry is never permitted in the Scriptures. Yehoshua certainly does not allow for it as a possibility in the question that the tzadukim (sadducees) put to him about the widow of 7 husbands (Mattityahu 22:23-32). In the Scriptures, the closest thing that we have to polyandry is the Great Whore of Babylon--not exactly a fitting type for the righteous Miriam.

So in the worst case scenario, Mary [sic] would be an adulterer and consequently in the cross-hairs of the penalty for such an act-- hence Joseph’s [sic] merciful inclination to put her away quietly. The Roman Catholic church conveniently does a patch job on this conundrum by saying that Joseph [sic] and Mary [sic] never had sexual relations the entirety of their married lives and so never actually consummated their marriage. (So then Joseph [sic] dies at a young age of prostrate cancer from the buildup of a couple decades of seed?). There is also the tipping point of conjugal rights: that the husband and wife are not to deny each other sex, so the Roman Catholic concept of a sexless Mary [sic] and sexless Joseph [sic] violates Scripture and is therefore untenable.

Additionally, option number 3 has Mary [sic] being polyandrous with two Divine Beings, and we already know that polyandry is not permitted in Scripture.

So that brings us to option number 4. Without the stigma and ramifications of divine-human sexual activity, the fornication and polyandry problems are solved-- sort of, but this brings us to the next big question. Does Scripture make any allowances for Divine seed combining with human seed (egg)? Let’s take a look at the Scriptures for some precedent.

What is YHWH’s design for reproduction?
Beresheeth (Genesis) 1:24-26, 28
24 And Elohim said, “Let the earth bring out the living
creature after its kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and
beast of the earth after its kind:” and it was so.
25 And Elohim made the beast of the earth after its kind,
and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creeps
upon the earth after its kind: and Elohim saw that it was
good.
26 And Elohim said, “Let Us make man in Our image,
after Our likeness...”
28 And Elohim blessed them [the male and female humans], and Elohim said to them,
“Be fruitful, and multiply , and replenish the earth,
and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and
over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that
moves upon the earth.”

Reproduction certainly seems to require the participants being of a like kind. Notice that the command for human dominion over the non-human creatures immediately follows the command to multiply (via sex)-- making a further distinction between the human kind as opposed to the non-human kinds.

What consequences are there if the mode of reproduction (sexual activity) violates the own-kind requirement?

Shemoth/Exodus 22:19
“Whoever lies with [has sexual relations with] a beast shall surely be put to death.”

Wayiqra (Leviticus 20:15-16
15 “And if a man lies with a beast, he shall surely be put to
death: and you shall slay the beast.
16 And if a woman approaches any beast, and lies down
with it, you shall kill the woman, and the beast: they shall
surely be put to death; their blod shall be upon them.”

Devarim (Deuteronomy) 27:21
21 “Cursed is he that lies with any manner of beast.” And
all the people shall say, “Amein.”

So, there we have the condemnation of humans mating with creatures below their kind. Even for animals we see that when a horse mates with a donkey, they are not blessed with fruitful offspring, but rather a sterile. and often stubborn, mule.

Now let’s take a look to see what happened when angelic beings (in this case, former angelic beings) mated with humans.

Beresheeth/Genesis 6:2
2 That the sons of Elohim [fallen angels]
saw the daughters of men that
they were beautiful; and they took for themselves wives
of all which they chose.
3 And YHWH said, “My Ruach shall not always strive with
man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be one
hundred twenty years.”
4 There were Nephilim [literally : fallen ones]
in the earth in those days; and
also after that, when the sons of Elohim came in to [had sex with] the
daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the
same became mighty men who were of old, men
of fame.
5 And Elohim saw that the wickedness of man was great
in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of
his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it bothered YHWH that He had made man on the
earth, and it grieved Him in His heart.
7 And YHWH said, “I will destroy man whom I have created
from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the
creeping thing, and the fowl of the air; for it bothers Me
that I have made them.”

So when humans mated with beings not their kind, it resulted in abominations (the nephilim) which led to the destruction of most humans from the face of the planet, sans Noach and his wife, and his sons and their wives. Doesn’t sound very promising.

So would YHWH mix His kind with human kind to produce a baby Yehoshua? The pattern in Scripture is a resounding NO! Now the Roman Catholic church is aware of the principle of keeping kinds distinct when bringing about pregnancy, but they use this instead to elevate Mary [sic] to the status of Godhood [sic] by declaring her to be a sinless co-redemptrix. Of course Miriam acknowledged that she needed a savior/redeemer (Luka 1:47) and outwardly brought a sacrifice to the temple (Luka 2:34), so it is clear that she was neither sinless nor a co-redemptrix, At least the Roman Catholic viewpoint is consistent in it’s errors by preserving the reproduction principal of own kinds.

On the other hand, the Protestants rightly preserve Mary’s [sic] human-ness and also preserve the concept of conjugal rights for Joseph [sic], but they unfortunately violate the principle of own-kind reproduction when they refer to James [sic] as the “half -brother” of Jesus [sic].

So Binitarianism and Oneness theology are both reactions against the above mentioned conundrums (spawned by Protestantism and Roman Catholicism). I can’t say I blame Binitarianism and Oneness Pentecostalism for distancing themselves from such a tangled mess. Historically, there are many pagan myths containing divine-human sex resulting in demi-god-like offspring. But error doesn’t correct error. Binitarian and Oneness theology is incapable of hiding the subject-object distinctions throughout Scripture between Father YHWH, the Ruach HaQodesh, and Yehoshua (the Son of Father YHWH).

Now, perhaps some might object when I had earlier explained how Yehoshua is the same kind, only begotten offspring of his Father YHWH. After all, aren’t all believers children of God [sic], born of the Holy Spirit [sic], -- so doesn’t that mean that God [sic] is not really limited to His principle of same kind offspring? Understand, when a person is born again, he or she is not conceived again, because the believer has already begun as a human, conceived in the usual manner. While believers are children of YHWH, they did not come about becoming children of YHWH in the same way that Yehoshua was brought forth as the only begotten Son of YHWH. Believers are reborn through the Ruach HaQodesh, NOT reconceived through the Ruach HaQodesh. So YHWH does not violate His principle of same-kind reproduction.

Another objection might be this: the body of believers is said to be The Bride of Moshiach-- so then wouldn’t that contradict the principle of same kind mating? Remember however, the bride of Moshiach is a metaphysical ,metaphorical, collective bride that is both singular and plural at the same time-- The Bride is not a lone human being, but something far greater than just a human being. No solitary person by her or himself is THE BRIDE, and certainly not in a literal pashat sense. If The Bride was literal and individual, then the consummation of the marriage of Jesus [sic] to The Bride would involve sex with each and every believer! Fortunately the Bride is metaphorical, so the principal of same kind mating is not violated. This may also put to rest some speculations about Yehoshua allegedly marrying Miriam of Magdala (his aunt who was married to Yoseph of Arimithea).

Much of modern Christianity’s conventional understanding of the “incarnation” is based upon the assumption that the words in the Mattityahu and Luka accounts do not have multiple definitions. However, in the following passages, the key words do in fact have multiple definitions. So a different read of the “incarnation” is entirely plausible if that is kept in mind. Now while I believe soundly in the Semetic origin of the B’rit Hadashah, there has not been much yet done in the way of Hebrew or Aramaic Lexicons for the B’rit Hadasha. And while there are nuances in the Hebrew and Aramaic that I will address later, we’ll first look at the more easily accessible Greek Lexicon definitions (which do not contradict the Semetic- base text anyhow, at least for the following passages). So below, The boldfaced definitions are keys to understanding how Yehoshua is from the heavens and also how the Ruach HaQodesh is feminine.

Mattityahu 1:18-20
18 Now the birth of Yehoshua the Moshiach was in this
manner: When His mother Miryam was espoused to
Yoseph,
before they came together, she was found to be
with Child by
* the Ruach HaQodesh.
19 Then Yoseph her baalah-husband,
being a righteous man,
and not willing to make her a public example, desired to
put her away and conceal her.
20 But while he thought on these things, see, the heavenly
angel of the Master YHWH
appeared to him in a dream,
saying, “Yoseph, son of Dawid, fear not to take to you
Miryam your wife: for that which is conceived, in her, is
from**
the Ruach HaQodesh.”

*
to be with Child-- (combination of the three following Greek words, an idiom for pregnancy)
-ekh'-o: literally “to have, hold
-en: in by with etc.
-gas-tare: the womb/belly
by-- ek: out of, from, by, away from

**
conceived--ghen-nah'-o: to be born , to be begotten , of women giving birth to children
inen: in by with etc
is --es-tee: to be
from --ek: out of, from, by, away from

Luka, being a doctor gives us the most detailed look at Yehoshua’s manifestation into Miriam’s womb.

Luka 1:34-35
34 Then said Miryam to the heavenly angel, “How shall
this be, seeing I know not a man?”
35 And the heavenly angel answered and said to her,
“The Ruach HaQodesh shall come upon* you, and the power
of El-Elyon shall overshadow** you: therefore also that
Kadosh-One which shall be born from*** you shall be called
the Son of YHWH.”

*
come --ep-er'-khom-ahee: to come to arrive; of time, come on, be at hand, be future.
upon --ep-ee' : upon, on, at, by, before; of position, on, at, by, over, against; on, over, on, at, across, against
to come upon, overtake one, said of sleep, disease, calamities, of the Ruach HaQodesh descending and operating in one, of an enemy attacking one.
andkahee: and, also, even, indeed, but

**
Power --doo'-nam-is: strength power, ability, inherent power, power residing in a thing by virtue of its nature, or which a person or thing exerts and puts forth; power for performing miracles
El Elyon: the Most High Elohim [Father YHWH]
overshadow --ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo: to throw a shadow upon, to envelop in a shadow, to overshadow

***
born --ghen-nah'-o: to be born , to be begotten , of women giving birth to children [same word as Matthew 1:20!]
from --ek: out of, from, by, away from

It is significant to remember that many Christians (but not all) misunderstand the Divine action/miracle of the Most High and the Holy Spirit [sic] upon Mary [sic] as somehow a divine-human sexual encounter-- this context of the assumption of a masculine Holy Spirit. I don’t even like to mention this, and many Christians will deny that they are thinking of it in terms of a divine-human sexual encounter, but here’s the test. If it is suggested that the Ruach HaQodesh is feminine, those believers (who think that Mary [sic] was fertilized by God [sic] sexually) will immediately protest that the implication is quasi-lesbianism! The whole problem is the assumption of divine-human sexual activity in the first place. If the manifestation of Moshiach in Miriam’s womb was the result of a human-divine sexual encounter, Miriam would have referred to herself (in Luka 1:38) as “wife” or “concubine,” (those are the only lawful sexually active options permitted in Torah for a woman). But in Luka, she said neither. Miriam refers to herself as a slave/bondmaid/handmaid of YHWH— so there’s no sexual activity going on there between a mortal and her Creator(s). Additionally, Yehoshua is to be called the “Son of Elohim” or “Son of YHWH’, not “son of YHWH and Miriam” nor “son of Elohim and Miriam.” His title is to be Emmanu El (El with us), nothalf-El with us”. A firstly spiritual, then biological miracle is what the Father and the Ruach HaQodesh did by making Yehoshua very small (zygotic in form), and then placing Him into Miriam’s womb. Yehoshua in his essence is 100% Elohim, who had none of Miriam’s genetics, because otherwise He would have half of our fallen nature in His essence, not to mention the confusion of being a hybrid "god-man". While people in the gospels refer to Miriam as Yehoshua's “mother,” Yehoshua Himself never calls Miriam “mother” or “eema”.

Next, let’s examine the word “overshadow” (gk: ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) the other times it appears. The Hebrew word from which the greek was derived is tsel meaning shade, whether literal or figurative -- defense, shade(-ow). It is used is in
Matttiyahu 17:5
While He yet spoke, see, a bright cloud overshadowed
them and they were greatly alarmed:
and see a Heavenly voice of YHWH [came]
out of the cloud, which said, “This is My beloved Son, in
whom I am well pleased; hear Him.”

Also the same word is in Yochanan Moshe/Mark 9:7 and Luka 9:34 to also describe the transfiguration. In that instance the Messiah’s divine nature was revealed/made manifest to Kepha (Peter), Ya’akov (James), and Yochanan (John) in a special way. Well, when Yehoshua was placed in Miriam’s womb, His divine nature was made manifest in a special way -- from Miriam, the placenta nourished Yehoshua’s body according to the instructions of His 100% Divine genetics. Overshadow is used is one other time in Maaseh Schlichim/Acts 5:15-16.
15 So that they brought out the sick into the streets, and
laid them on mats and couches, so that at the very least,
the shadow of Kepha passing by might overshadow some
of them.
16 There came also a multitude out of the cities around
Yahrushalayim, bringing sick folks, and those who were
troubled with demons:
and they were healed, every one.

In that instance the overshadowing and dynamic activity (miracles) are inseparable. In the same way, when the power of YHWH the Father overshadowed Miriam/Miriam’s while the Ruach HaQodesh came upon her, The Father’s Power guided the miracle, going beyond just the protection of Miriam. The emphasis is clearly the activity of the Most High directing the placement of the preconceived Yehoshua into Miriam’s womb while sustaining His protection.

In order to get a grasp on the understanding of “born/conceived” let’s look at Yochanan/ John 3:3-8:

3 Yehoshua answered and said to him, “Amein, amein, I say to
you, Except a man be born again and circumcized of the heart,
he cannot see the kingdom of YHWH.”
4 Nakdimon said to Him, “How can a man be born when
he is old? Can he enter the second time into his eema’s (mothers’s) womb, and be born?
5 Yehoshua answered, “Amein, amein, I say to you, Except a
man is born of water and of the Ruach, he cannot enter
into the kingdom of YHWH.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which
is born of the Ruach is ruach.
7 Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born from
above
.
8 The wind blows where it desires, and you hear the
sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from, and
where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Ruach.”

Question: in what sense was Nakdimon’s (Nicodemus’) understanding of the word “born? Was it masculine or feminine birthing? Clearly, from Nakdimon’s questions, he understood it as being the feminine aspect of birthing. Did Yehoshua try to change Nakdimon’s understanding of feminine birthing to the masculine sense of begetting? If that were the case, Yehoshua’s answer would have read something like, “womans’ flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Heavenly Father begets the spirit.” But it doesn’t say that, does it! Rather, instead of tearing down the understanding of feminine birthing, Yehoshua not only reinforced it, but built his answer around Nakdimon’s understanding! Of what? Feminine birthing! With the knowledge that both spiritual and fleshly birthing are a feminine action, the parallel is stunning: first Yahushua was born of the Ruach HaQodesh and then born through human flesh into human-like form; people on the other hand are first born of the flesh, and then when they trust in and obey Yehoshua, are born of the Ruach HaQodesh. Divine Order and symmetry—it is beautiful—no wonder angels longed to look into these things!

In all of those instances above, “born” is ghen-nah'-o, and “gives birth” is literally ghen-nah'-o ek, of which both in context, are consistently a feminine action. So how would this help in understanding the “incarnation” accounts? Well, Mattityahu 1:20 and Luke 1:34 use the same word: ghen-nah’-o . Now, try using the English word “born” from Luke 1:34 and put it in place of the English word “conceived” for Matthew 1:20. Here’s how it turns out
“…For that which is born in her is of the Ruach HaQodesh”

In fact a translation from the Munster Hebrew and DuTillet Hebrew manuscripts goes like this:
“...do not fear to take Miriam [to be] your wife: for what shall be born within her midst is from the Ruach HaQodesh.”

That certainly is a confirmation of the Hebrew origin of the text.

In the Younan Aramaic literal translation of Luka 1:31, the angel says to Miriam,
“Behold, for you will receive conception...”.

It does not say “you will conceive” but rather that Miriam is to receive [Who is] already coneived!

So how do we solve the seemingly contradictory titles for Yehoshua as “Son of YHWH” and “Son of Adahm”?

Yeshayahu 9:6a (ISRV)
“For a Child shall be born unto us, a Son shall be given unto us, and the rule is on His shoulder”****

Notice that it says “shall be given unto us” not “shall come from us.” Yes, He was born through Miriam through the line of Yahudah, but first He was given. He did not originate from humans in part or whole.

Yochanan 3:31
He [Yehoshua] that comes from above is above all; he that is of the
earth is earthly and speaks of the earth; He that comes
from the shamayim (heavens)
is above all.

Yochanan 6:38 [Yehoshua speaking of Himself]
“For I came down from the shamayim (heavens), not to do My
own will, but the will of Him that sent Me.”

So when was Yehoshua brought forth prior to Miriam? Yochanan 17:5 gives us a hint [Yehoshua speaking]:
"And now, O Father, esteem Me by Your Own Self with the
esteem that I had with You before the world was
created
."

Rabbi and Hebrew scholar Simon Altaf gives some further insight about the Ruach HaQodesh bringing forth Her Son, Yehoshua:

Remember my assumption is all NT books were written first in Hebrew not Aramaic. Also we do know Mattityahu was most definitely written in Hebrew as we have surviving copies.
So yes certainly there are nuisances, but we need to go back to the Hebrew mindset ... This is difficult to tell unless we can pin down the exact Hebrew word used...

The Hebrew word for “with child" is "hareh". Basically to mean: with child, pregnant or to conceive.

Now applying ancient Hebrew to this, it shows what took place in Miriam is the work of the Ruach HaKodesh so we have the Heh which is significant followed by the letter Resh and then Heh again.

Heh - This indicates at least to me that the Ruach HaKodesh had to be ready and prepared to do this job so it is at the head of these letters in the word Hareh as in the Matthew 1:20.

Resh - Normally this would be ahead of the Heh but here this is not, indicating that Resh which is a picture of the head shows this is the orchestrated work of Abba YHWH.

Heh - This again shows the work completed by the Ruach. So the Ruach was the receptacle/container to carry the baby.

The Ruach HaKodesh conceived Yehoshua before time began... but we obviously do not know when in eternity this happened other than the fact the Scriptures tell us that He [Yehoshua] was brought out from the bosom of the Father.

The book of Proverbs gives us a clue in Mishlei/Proverbs 8:22 [Chochmah (the Ruach HaKodesh) speaking of Herself]

‘YHWH possessed Me in the beginning of His way,
before His works of old.’

The word to possess is the Hebrew word Kanah
קנה

Note it is so close to the word for Jealousy-- same sound but spelled differently. Again, note the difference is the Heh. Kaf, Nun and Heh. To possess has the idea of giving birth to something because it has the NUN and that represents the picture of a "sperm". So the idea of a birth is right here in this word.

So if this was the time of the Ruach to be brought forth then it was also at this point that Yehoshua was brought forth and begotten.

Mishlei/Proverbs 8:23 [Chochmah (Ruach HaKodesh) speaking of Herself]

‘I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning,
before the earth was.’
The word for "set up" is Nasak. נסך

Did you notice what I said earlier. It has a nun to start the word. The picture of a "sperm". Now I don’t want to lose you here, but pay close attention. The letter "Samech" has the idea of puncturing, piercing something. What is a woman? Someone to pierce for conception. What is man? Someone that penetrates.

So with that thought, look above for Nasak:

Nun - Sperm
Samech - To Penetrate or pierce, puncture.
Kuph - The picture of a Palm, Cover or to bend.

Now to understand my analogy and wordings, look at the passage in Beresheeth/Genesis 1:27


Beresheeth/Genesis 1:27 ‘So Elohim created man in His own image; in the image of Elohim He created him; male and female He created them.’

Check the words for male and female above in the ancient Hebrew

Male - Zakkar represents a male member something to "puncture" but you won't find this in the text unless you understand ancient Hebrew or old Hebrew customs.
Female - Nekebah the translations hide what I am trying to say so you may not find it in there. The word actaully means "punctured" not what they want you to read. So what does a man do to the vagina of a woman? Puncture it.

Yes. Because YHWH used His words and His language [ancient pictorial Hebrew], not man’s idea. We know ancient cultures like the Egyptians did follow this pattern also, and in many other cultures that had pictorial scripts instead of our Modern scripts. Even in Saudi Arabi where Mount Sinai is we find the writings were done in pictorial, not modern Hebrew.

Just as the woman was brought out from the man in Beresheeth/Genesis chapter 2:22 it is very clear that Abba YHWH had already done this deal where He had brought out the Ruach (feminine side of Abba YHWH) from within Himself before the Son Yehoshua was given. We do not know how the Abba YHWH brought the Ruach or what process took place since we do not know the substance of our Father, but clearly the pattern is present which is shown in Adahm and Chawa where the woman originated from the man and also the children were already in the loins of the man.

It would [also] appear that at least the make up of the sentence structure for Luke 1:35 is of more feminine than masculine words --specifically the text that speaks about the Ruach as the receptacle. For “shall come upon” the Hebrew could likely be “V’Hayah Bo” and similar to Beresheeth/Genesis 12:12…”Therefore it shall come to pass”

The sentence for Luke 1:35 starts with a VAV; this is prophetic Hebrew for "This is a done deal" no one can change what is about to take place.
"


So taking the Scriptures as a Whole here is what we have:
1. Father YHWH, derives the feminine Ruach HaQodesh from Himself in eternity past before the world began (Mishlei/Proverbes 8:22-23) (this is also covered in Patriarchinity chapter 6).
2. Father YHWH is super-ordinate over the Ruach HaQodesh (covered in-depth in Patriarchinity chapter 4).
3. Yehoshua was brought forth from Father YHWH and the Ruach HaQodesh in eternity past before the creation of the earth (Yochanan 3:11-13,Qolesayah/Colossians 1:13-17), (also covered in this chapter and Patriarchinity chapter 6).
4. Father YHWH manifested himself in a physical way (Beresheeth/Genesis 3:8, Shemoth/Exodus 33:18-23) By the way YHWH did not need to be recombined with a human seed to do that.
5. Yehoshua appeared as a complete Being in the Tanakh (Yahoshua 5:13-15, Bamidbar 22:24-34, Shophtim13:3-20, to name a few.) Yehoshua did not need to be combined with human seed to become physical during those appearences.
6. Under the direction, proteciton and guidance of Father YHWH, the Ruach HaQodesh transforms Yehoshua into the smallest human-like form (zygote), and places Him (preconceived) into Miriam’s womb. (Patriarchinity chapter 7)
7. Yehoshua was then “re-born” from His surrogate mother Miriam of the line of Yahudah.

And if YHWH wants to bring forth His Son into the world that way to save us, who are we to argue?

****
Note Regarding Yeshayahu 9:6 (adapted from The Virgin Birth by Yoseph Viel)
6 For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given: and the
government shall be upon His shoulder: and His Name
shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty-El,
Awb Ad, The Prince of Shalom.

The typical translation of Awb Ad as "Everlasting Father" is not accurate.

The phrase in question can be translated several ways. Awb can mean "Father" or "origin". Ad can mean "eternity" or "witness". So the possible translations are...

Father of Eternity
Origin of Eternity
Originator of Eternity
Father of Witness
Origin of Witness
Fatherly Witness
My Father is a Witness

WITNESS OF THE FATHER
My Father is forever

I'd suggest that the translations that verify the necessary distinction between Father and Son are more accurate.

Special thanks:
to Simon Altaf for in-depth insight on the Hebrew letters and counsel on the Hebrew texts in this chapter and also chapter 1 and 6.
and to Yoseph Viel for the Hebrew translation of Matt 1:20 and his explanation of Yeshayahu 9:6.

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Comment by Mikha El on April 17, 2009 at 8:39am
Chris,

Thanks for your very insightful writings. When will the book be available?


One question I would like to ask you, concerns being able to prove to Mary worshipers, that Mary is not Deity. As you know they claim she is a sort of co-redeemer since Yahusha's blood and her blood were intertwined. You pose the question above:

Does Scripture make any allowances for Divine seed combining with human seed (egg)?

Catholics I know will say that "like kind" did not occur with Mary bringing forth the son of "God" therefore it didn't occur at "conception".. The ones I know don't have a problem with no "seed" mixture, but when you discuss the blood, it becomes a different issue.

You go on to say...

Yehoshua in his essence is 100% Elohim, who had none of Miriam’s genetics, because otherwise He would have half of our fallen nature in His essence, not to mention the confusion of being a hybrid "god-man". While people in the gospels refer to Miriam as Yehoshua's “mother,” Yehoshua Himself never calls Miriam “mother” or “eema”.

Good points, but isn't it possible that Yesoshua did have a "sin seed" (not via intercourse) passed on via Miriam's blood, and was the only one to have overcome it by living a sinless life? Are genetics passed through blood? If yes, it appears my method of refuting the blood issue will be to tell them "Jesus" was not a "hybrid God/man".

So, I guess my question concerns disproving the no blood mixture theory. Aside from the genetics producing a hybrid issue, can you think of any other ways to refute their thinking?


One last question. Can any of your writings be referenced to others?

mikha El
Comment by Mavryk Chaparral on April 17, 2009 at 9:40am
I have 2 or 3 more chapters to write/edit, so stay tuned, there's a few more surprises. YHWH willing, i'll try to have it completed by or before Shavuot, and will try to get it to a publisher before June .

Far as I'm aware, there are no allowances for Divine seed and human seed to combine.

As far as blood, yes of course the placenta within Miriam did indeed nourish Yehoshua's body, but it was His genetic code that organized those nutrients for energy and mass. Yehoshua ate food, but his body didn't become a piece of broiled fish and honeycomb. Genetic code is passed by the process of conception. The placenta, by the way, has the same genetic code and blood type as the baby and does not mix the mother's blood with the baby's blood although the mother's blood does in fact flow through the placenta.

I do not believe that Yehoshua had a sin seed. Did he have the capacity to sin. Yes, but that is simply a restatement of free will-- the ability to choose or choose otherwise. He of course chose to be sinless. A Divine Being by definition, must have free will.

I'm a little bit confused on one statement, could you further explain what you meant by, "Catholics I know will say that "like kind" did not occur with Mary bringing forth the son of "God" therefore it didn't occur at "conception".. The ones I know don't have a problem with no "seed" mixture, but when you discuss the blood, it becomes a different issue."?

Do you mean that Catholics are saying that like-kind did not occur from "God" or that like-kind did not occur from "Mary, or is it something to do with the supposed mixing of blood types?

Yes, feel free to reference this book to anyone. The nice thing about NazareneSpace is that outsiders can drop in and view things before they've decided or not to become a member.
Comment by Mikha El on April 18, 2009 at 10:53am
Chris,

Thanks for your insightful reply. I'm curious...Are you involved in anatomy or health care?

I will attempt to explain what I perceive some Catholics teach concerning a “spiritual” mixture of “unlike kinds” from YHWH.

My understanding is that the implantation of the microscopic sized amount of flesh that developed into another manifested form of the Eternal One, ...which seems to me as a mixture of unlike kinds, spiritually speaking. Or in other words, a set-apart being entering a frail human. This is what I've perceived from some Catholics, and I agree with. I was also referencing this with along with the question about the intermingling of the blood of Miriam and Yeshuhua.

Other Catholics I have come across teach Mary was deity, (...although some deny it, despite “prayers” to her.) and therefore like kinds did reproduce. They also teach the intermingling of the blood giving Mary her co-redemptive qualifications. I've posted some of their heresy below...

____________________________________________________________________
I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Since it was very unusual to talk about women having seed in the Bible, this means that there is something very unusual about the birth of Christ—the Seed of the woman. It means that he was born only of a woman, without the intervention of a man, whose Seed he would otherwise be. As a result, Christians have always regarded Genesis 3:15 as containing a prophecy of the Virgin Birth. And Protestants are included in that. They fully recognize that Genesis 3:15 prophesies not only the coming of Christ, but the way in which he could come: through the womb of a virgin.

But this means that the woman described in Genesis 3:15 is more than just Eve. Eve was not a virgin. All of the children Eve had were fathered by her husband, Adam, according to the normal course of nature. As a result, the woman in Genesis 3:15 is more than just Eve because Eve did not have any virgin births. Therefore, we know that Mary, the only woman in history to have a virgin birth, is specially in view in the Genesis 3:15.

So even though Eve is the principal woman under discussion in Genesis 3, when we come to the prophecy in verse 15 of that chapter, the woman is also seen to be Mary. Mary is therefore pictured as a "Second Eve," the successor to the woman of Genesis, who will be the fulfillment of the prophecy of the virgin birth.

This idea of Mary as the Second Eve is something that the writers of the New Testament picked up on. There are traces of the idea in John's gospel and in the book of Revelation, and perhaps in St. Luke's gospel as well.

Just as there were similarities between the First Adam and the First Eve, so there will be similarities between the Second Adam and the Second Eve. We know that the First Adam and the First Eve both started their lives in an immaculate state, and we know that the Second Adam also started his life in an immaculate state—Christ had no Original Sin or its stain—and so we should expect the Second Eve to also start her life in an immaculate state. If the First Adam and the First Eve were immaculate, and if the Second Adam was also immaculate, then the Second Eve will be immaculate as well. We can thus see how naturally the fact that Mary is the Second Eve leads into the teaching that God gave her the grace of being immaculate early.
__________________________________________________________________________


This is probably more in line with the “official” teachings. An almost hopeless quandary of ½ truth's.

mikha El
Comment by Mavryk Chaparral on April 18, 2009 at 12:43pm
no, i'm just an art teacher.
Part of omnipotence is the ability to cloak One's self with the frailty of human-like flesh (at least for a period of time). So the essence of Who Yehoshua was physically was defined by His 100% Divine genetic code, but the human-like component of that was the matter which His code built His earthly body with. If i understand correctly, the human body replaces all of it's cells every 7 years (or is it 12, i forgot), so your genetic code + your soul+ your action + your thoughts + your experiences are what defines who you are. So just because Miriam nourished Yehoshua's body via the placenta, and just because Yehoshua ate the same kinds of foods that most normal kosher humans ate at that time, it didn't make Him any less Divine.

As for Genesis/Beresheeth 3:15, I think the key is Isaiah/Yeshayahu 9:6a " For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given". The Seed did not originate from Miriam, but rather Miriam was entrusted with The Seed that was given to her-- that is what is unusual about her Seed.

As for the notion that Mary/Miriam is somehow a "Second Eve" I'm not so sure i agree with that. If Yehoshua is the perfect Adahm a.k.a The [given] Son of Adahm, then that would make the collective body of believers a.k.a The Bride, the "second Chawa/Eve". There seems to be more design in that. Through Adahm following Chawa's lead, all creation became fallen. Through The Bride following the lead of The [given from above] Son of Adahm (who redeemed The Bride), all creation is ultimately made anew. I don't think that there's a conflict of like-kinds with the Bride because The Bride is greater than the sum of her parts, and besides that, the marriage of The Lamb to The Bride is metaphorical.
Comment by Mavryk Chaparral on April 22, 2010 at 10:31pm

Anaiah said from another post
"Also, it would be morally repugnant of Messiah, who is Yahuwah in the flesh, to have married one of the beings He created. It would be exactly like the angels having relations with humans, which was so morally repugnant that they were sent to Tartaros. Yahuwah would have been an extreme hypocrite had he slept with a human, as even if he were to get "married" it would not be a legitimate union as the fallen angels learned the hard way"

Well, Anaiah, As i have demonstrated in Patriarchinity chapter 3, The Messiah is not His own Father even though He is the same Kind as His Father, but i digress. You are correct in asserting that the mixing of Divine Seed with mortal seed is a No-no. And so that is the whole point of Patriarchinity Chapter 7. YHWH did not mix His seed with the mortal Miriam. And we can surmise that Yehoshua did not mix His seed with mortal women either. Now some may counter and say "well we are the bride of Messiah." And that much is true, HOWEVER, believers are a metaphorical collective bride, and the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and so there is no literal mixing of Divine seed with mortal seed since the union is metaphorical rather than woodenly literal.
Comment by Mavryk Chaparral on April 22, 2010 at 11:01pm
Anaiah says,
"my point is that Messiah could not have had sex with anyone..."

Well, I'll let the reader figure this one out then. It is not too difficult.
Luka 2:21a
And when the eight days were accomplished for the circumcision of the Child, His Name was called Yehoshua..."
Comment by Mavryk Chaparral on April 23, 2010 at 9:16pm
LOL. At last, we're in agreement on something. :)
Comment by George Lujack on March 12, 2013 at 11:48pm

Mary was Yeshua’s Surrogate Mother

Mary WAS NOT the biological mother of Yeshua. Mary served God as a surrogate mother for the Messiah. That is how Yeshua was born WITHOUT sin (Catholics claim Jesus was born without sin, because Mary was also free from the stain of original sin).

Mary was a SURROGATE MOTHER. Scripture FULLY supports Yeshua’s surrogate birth to Mary.

MATTHEW 1:18-20:
Now the birth of Yeshua Messiah was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, FOR THAT WHICH IS CONCEIVED IN HER IS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

TRANSLATION (Message to Joseph):
Do not be concerned to take Mary as your wife. The Child inside her is not hers; it was placed inside her by the Holy Spirit and is of God, not Mary.

The Holy Spirit DID NOT fertilize Mary's egg. If the Holy Spirit fertilized Mary's egg, that would make the Holy Spirit an adulterer, for Mary was the betrothed wife of Joseph. Even if you consider Joseph and Mary unmarried at that point, it would make the Holy Spirit a fornicator and Jesus would have been born a bastard, the product of a union between 2-unmarried beings and a crossbreed between God and man.

Yeshua IS identified as Melchizedek without father, without mother, without genealogy. Yeshua had a Father (God) but not a biological father or mother.

HEBREWS 7:1-3:
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” WITHOUT FATHER, WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT GENEALOGY, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made unto the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

Yeshua DENIES His mistaken biological genealogy declaring that He IS NOT a descendant of King David:

MATTHEW 22:41-45; MARK 12:35-37; LUKE 20:41-44:
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Yeshua asked them, saying, “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose Son is He?”
They said to Him, “The Son of David.” He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”’?
If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ HOW IS HE HIS SON?” 

(HOW IS HE HIS DESCENDANT?)

Since Yeshua was the Son of God and NOT the biological Son of Mary, Yeshua didn’t have half-brothers and half-sisters either as many believe. Yeshua’s brothers and sisters mentioned in Scripture are the sons and daughters of Joseph and Mary and are not blood relatives of Yeshua. Yeshua’s brothers and sisters mentioned in Scripture are His step-brothers and step-sisters.

Comment by Mavryk Chaparral on June 12, 2014 at 7:06am

Well what is meant by "blood relatives"?  If a child is born through a woman (biological or surrogate), she is still considered the child's birth mother, so in one sense she and her kin are considered blood relatives, after all "Unto us a child is given"-- He was given into the bloodline of Dawud.  So Yahusha doesn't really deny at all that He is a [surrogate] descendent of king David in Mattityahu 22:41-45 and Luka 20:41-44-- He is simply emphasizing that He is BEYOND mere human.

The brothers and sisters mentioned in Scripture might be sons and daughters of Yoseph and Miriam OR they might also be sons of Cleopas and Miriam since after Yoseph's death Miriam married Yoseph's brother Cleopas.  Also, since Miriam was most likely the 2nd or 3rd wife of Yoseph in a polygynous marriage, That means that Yoseph likely already had children with the other wife/wives.

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