Nazarene Space

What seems to be overlooked is that one thing Y'shua warned us about in Mat 16:11/Mar 8:15 and again in Luk 12:1:

"BEWARE OF THE TEACHING OF THE PHARISEES"

To truly understand Paul, one must come to a full understanding of who the Pharisees were and what they taught.

Before Y'shua even gave them a chance to reject Him, they were blasted by the John the Baptist, who said of them:

"Brood of adders! Who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Bear, therefore, fruits worthy of repentance, and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as father.’ For I say to you that Elohim is able to raise up children to Aḇraham from these stones. And the axe is already laid to the root of the trees. Every tree, then, which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

Immediately into His ministry, Y'shua saw their uncircumcized and disobedient hearts (Mar 3:5). Thus he said regarding them:

"...unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall by no means enter into the reign of the heavens."

According to Y'shua, the Pharisees put on an outward show, to recieve praise from men, but inwardly, they were disobedient to YHWH's law

"...do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do, in the congregations and in the streets, to be praised by men."

"...and they do all their works to be seen by men, and they make their t’fillen wide and lengthen the tzitziyot of their garments..."

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are filled with plunder and unrighteousness."

"So you too outwardly indeed appear righteous to men, but inside you are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness."

According to Y'shua, the Pharisees dissobeyed YHWH by their man made traditions and prohibited others from entering the Kingdom by placing on the people with a heavy yoke of this man made tradition

"nullifying the Word of Elohim through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such traditions you do."

"...blind leaders..."

"Because you shut up the reign of the heavens before men, for you do not go in, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."

"For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them."

 

According to Y'shua, the main flaw of the Pharisees was that they missed the point of Torah--Judgement, Mercy & FAITH! Or, in other words, judgement and LOVE!

"Did not Mosheh give you the Torah? Yet not one of you does the Torah!"

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you...have neglected the weightier matters of the Torah: the right-ruling and the compassion and the belief.

"...because you...pass by the right-ruling and the love of Elohim."

 

So to recap from what we learned about the Pharisees, they were a people that:

1) Boasted in the fact that they are Abraham's fleshly seed (Mat 3:7)

2) loved to apear righteous by their works (Mat 6:2, 23:5, 25, 38)

3) placed a yoke on the neck of the people, while they themself didn't keep it (Mar 7:13, Mat 15:4, 23:13, 23:4)

4) did not apply the faith taught in the Torah (Mat 23:23)

 

Now lets compare Paul's dealings and teachings:

1) Abraham's spiritual seed (Rom 4:1-24, Gal 3:6-29, 4:22-31; comp w/ 6:12)

2) works makes no man righteous (Rom 3:27, 11:6, Gal 2:16, 3:2-10, Eph 2:9-10)

3) yoke being placed on neck of people, that none even kept (Act 15:10, Gal 6:13)

4) faith is what it's all about (Rom 2:12-3:31, 4:12, Gal 2:20, 5:6)

 

Brothers, sister, may I submit to you that Paul spent much of his time in combating the very teaching Y'shua warned us about--the teaching of the Pharisees!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Views: 151

Comment by James Trimm on October 5, 2010 at 5:10am
What seems to be overlooked by both sides, is that one thing Y'shua warned us about in Mat 16:11/Mar 8:15 and again in Luk 12:1:
"BEWARE OF THE TEACHING OF THE PHARISEES"


OK lets look at this carefully:

Mt. 16:11 says "Pharisees and Sadducees"
Mark 8:15 says "Pharisees and Herod"
Luke specifies which teaching is at issue "which is respect of persons" (Luke 12:1)




According to Y'shua, the Pharisees put on an outward show, to recieve praise from men, but inwardly, they were disobedient to YHWH's law

"...do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do, in the congregations and in the streets, to be praised by men."

"...and they do all their works to be seen by men, and they make their t’fillen wide and lengthen the tzitziyot of their garments..."

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are filled with plunder and unrighteousness."

"So you too outwardly indeed appear righteous to men, but inside you are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness."



You seem to think Yeshua was at odds with Pharisees by accusing them of hypocrisy, but to the contrary the Pharisees were very aware and concerned about hypocrisy in their ranks, as we read in the Talmud:

King Jannai said to his wife', `Fear not the Pharisees and the non-Pharisees but the hypocrites who are the Pharisees; because their deeds are the deeds of Zimri but they expect a reward like Phineas'
(b.Sotah 22b)

Yeshua agreed with the Pharisees that there was a problem with hypocrisy in their sect... generally hypocrisy means that I agree with you but want you do be true to your own teachings.

For example when Yeshua criticized Pharisees saying:

They [hypocrites] delight to stand in the assemblies and at the corners of the streets to pray, that men may see them.
(Matt. 6:5 HRV)

In reality a similar condemnation appears in the Talmud:

‘One who says the Tefillah so that it can be heard
is of the small of faith’. R. Huna said:
This was meant to apply only if he is able to concentrate
his attention when speaking in a whisper,
but if he cannot concentrate his attention when speaking
in a whisper, it is allowed. And this is the case only when
he is praying alone, but if he is with the congregation [he
must not do so because] he may disturb the congregation.
(b.Ber 24b)


According to Y'shua, the Pharisees dissobeyed YHWH by their man made traditions and prohibited others from entering the Kingdom because of they burdened the people with a heavy yoke of this man made tradition

You have confused three passages. The first is Matthew 15 where Messiah takes issue with "traditions of men" which he indicates are specifically "decrees of the elders" which "make void the commandments". He does NOT say that all traditions the Pharisees taught were "of men" and that none of them were of Elohim. (Christians read this into the text, but it is not there.) To the contrary Yeshua is addressing a halcahic debate that was ongoing in his day on the issue between various groups of Pharisees:

R. Elieazar says: they open a vow for a man by reference to the
honor of his father or mother.
and the sages prohibit.
said R. Tzadok: before they open a vow for him by reference to his father or mother let them open his vow by reference to the
honor of HaMakom. If so there will be no vow.
But the sages concede to R. Elieazar, that in a matter that is between him and his mother or father they loose his vow by
reference to his father or mother."
(m.Nedarim 9:1)

Yeshua was supporting the "tradition" of R. Eliezer as a tradition of Elohim against the decree of the elders which he called a "tradition of men".

From here you have jumped to Matthew 23:13

23:13 But woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Which close the Kingdom of Heaven against the sons of men; for you enter not yourselves, neither do you allow them that are eager to enter.

This passage is key to understanding Yeshua's attitude to the Halachic authority of the Pharisees.

A parallel passage appears in Lk. 11:52:

Woe to you scribes
because you have taken away the keys of knowledge.
you have not entered,
you have hindered those who were entering.

Now when we look at these two passages together it becomes clear that the "key" in Luke 11:52 had the potential to open up or shut up the Kingdom of Heaven. This "key" is clearly then "the key of the house of David" in Is. 22:22:

The key of the House of David I will lay on his shoulder;
so he shall open, and no one shall shut;
and he shall shut and no one shall open.

This key is the halachic authority. Yeshua recognized that the Pharisees held that halachic authority but he also tells us that they had squandered it by rejecting the Kingdom offer and refusing to use the key to help Messiah open up the Messianic Kingdom.

Then you move to Mt. 23:4 placing 23:13 before it (when it actually occurs afterward) and adding a because that is not in the Scripture. Mt. 23:4 simply is a description of the hypocrisy that Yeshua mentioned before. In fact it refers to things like tithing on garden herbs (Mt. 23:23). Yeshua says of "judgment, loving kindness and faith" "these things ought you to have done, not leaving the other (those heavy yoke things) undone."


According to Y'shua, the main flaw of the Pharisees was that they missed the point of Torah--Judgement, Mercy & FAITH! Or, in other words, judgement and LOVE!

"Did not Mosheh give you the Torah? Yet not one of you does the Torah!"

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you...have neglected the weightier matters of the Torah: the right-ruling and the compassion and the belief.


"...because you...pass by the right-ruling and the love of Elohim."

The passage actually reads:

23 Woe to you, scribes and P'rushim; hypocrites--who tithe mint, and rue, and cumin,
and have neglected those things which are weightiest634 in the Torah: judgment,
lovingkindness, and trust. Those things ought you to have done, neither to have
rejected these.

(Mt. 23:23 HRV)

You conveniently left out the last phrase.
Comment by jacob on October 5, 2010 at 11:34pm
You cannot get around the fact that He rebuked the Pharisees for not obeying Torah:

"...Did not Moshe give you the Torah? Yet NOT ONE OF YOU kept the Torah" (Joh 7:19, HRV)

By use of His phrase, 'NOT ONE OF YOU', Y'shua makes it perfectly clear that His rebuke was not just to a handfull of disobedient group of Pharisees.

Likewise:

"You hypocrites, Yesha'yahu did well indeed prophesy concerning you, saying, 'This people honors me withtheir mouth and with their lips, but have removed their heart far fro me..." (Mat 15:8, HRV)

Here Y'shua applies a prophecy of YHWH's rebuke to the "drunkenness" of disobedient Efayim, who "are not of" YHWH, who "err in spirit", adding "sin to sin" (Isa 28:1, 3, 29:9, 24, 30:1 ),
saying that their err was not truly obeying Torah, in the "heart", where it counts.

Thus, the paralel rebuke He gives in Mat 23:23! Are you doubting that this is a rebuke?

Are you saying that Y'shua didn't say "HAVE NEGLECTED" (Mat 23:23, HRV)??????

Surely He was rebuking them for missing the main point of Torah!!!

Moreover,
the Pharisees were WELL AWARE that Y'shua's teachings were not from them:

Mat 7:29 for He was teaching them as one possessing authority, and NOT AS the scribes.

Mat 13:54 He taught them in their congregation, so that they were astonished and said, “Where did this One get this wisdom..?

Joh 7:15 And the Yehudim were marvelling, saying, “How does this Man know letters, not having learned?”
Joh 7:16 יהושע answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

Y'shua CLEARLY said that His teaching came NOT FROM LEARNING but DIRECTLY FOR YHWH!!!

You can try to understand Y'shua's teachings in light of Jewish tradition. I'll try to understand Him in light of His own Words.
Comment by James Trimm on October 6, 2010 at 12:06am
Not one of you kept the Torah" sure, but not just Pharisees, that is everyone as the Psalms say "there is none righteous, not even one" (Ps. 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Rom. 3:10-18)

So this does not tell us anything special about Pharisees.
Comment by jacob on October 6, 2010 at 12:37am
I went to an article you have on your WNAE website where you said,

"Both Ramban and Paul tell us that the New Covenant is tied to the work of Messiah, involves a change of a persons heart and inner desires"

This is presisly as I said. I said that the main point of Torah, accoring to Y'shua (giver of the New Covenant) is faith, or inward desire, or love (Mat 23:23/Luk 11:42) and that HE SAID that the Pharisees HE WAS SPEAKING TO "neglected" these main Torah principals. I simply pointed out that Paul also taught this in connection with them. Then, you said I interpreted Mat 23:23 incorrectly.

Thus, you testify against yourself.
Comment by Vicki Clifford on October 6, 2010 at 1:49pm
I recently asked Elohim to show me what the leavening of the "Pharisees and Sadducee" were, as it warns to beware of in Revelations. Is this what they meant? What were the man made traditions they burdened the people with?
Comment by jacob on October 6, 2010 at 4:14pm
1) you're not allowed to eat with gentiles

Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His taught ones, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

2) you're not allowed to pick food from the fields on the Sabbath when you are hungry

At that time יהושע went through the grain fields on the Sabbath. And His taught ones were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain, to eat. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your taught ones are doing what is not right to do on the Sabbath!” -Mat 12:1-2

3) you're not allowed heal on the Sabbath

Mat 12:10 And see, there was a man having a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, “Is it right to heal on the Sabbath?” – so as to accuse Him.

4) you must wash your hands before eating

Then there came to יהושע scribes and Pharisees from Yerushalayim, saying, “Why do Your taught ones transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.” But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the command of Elohim because of your tradition? “For Elohim has commanded, saying, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ “But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated,” is certainly released from respecting his father or mother.’ So you have nullified the command of Elohim by your tradition. “Hypocrites! Yeshayahu rightly prophesied about you, saying, ‘This people draw near to Me with their mouth, and respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. ‘But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as teachings the commands of
men.’ ” -Mat 15:1-19

5) You must not swear falsely if you swear by the name of Yahuah
“Again, you heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to יהוה.’ “But I say to you, DO NOT SWEAR FALSELY AT ALL, neither by the heaven, because it is Elohim’s throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Yerushalayim, for it is the city of the great Sovereign; nor swear by your head, because you are not able to make one hair white or black. “But let your word ‘Yea’ be ‘Yea,’ and your ‘No’ be ‘No.’ And what goes beyond these is from the wicked one. -Mat 5:33-37
“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it does not matter, but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, is bound by oath.’ “Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sets the gift apart? “He, then, who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all that is upon it. “And he who swears by the Dwelling Place, swears by it and by Him who is dwelling in it. “And he who swears by the heaven, swears by the throne of Elohim and by Him who is sitting upon it. -Mat 23:18-32

6) You must be an orthadox Jew

And certain men came down from Yehudah and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised, according to the practice of Mosheh, you are unable to be saved.” So when Sha’ul and Barnabah had no small dissension and dispute with them, they arranged for Sha’ul and Barnabah and certain others of them to go up to Yerushalayim, to the emissaries and elders, about this question. So, being sent on their way by the assembly, they passed through Phoenicia and Shomeron, relating the conversion of the gentiles. And they were causing great joy to all the brothers. And having arrived in Yerushalayim, they were received by the assembly and the emissaries and the elders. And they reported all that Elohim had done with them. And some of the believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees, rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the Torah of Mosheh.” And the emissaries and elders came together to look into this matter. And when there had been much dispute, Kĕpha rose up and said to them, “Men, brothers, you know that a good while ago Elohim chose among us, that by my mouth the gentiles should hear the word of the Good News and believe. “And Elohim, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Set-apart Spirit, as also to us, and made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by belief. “Now then, why do you try Elohim by putting a yoke on the neck of the taught ones which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? “But through the favor of the Master יהושע Messiah we trust to be saved, in the same way as they.” -Act 15:1-11
Comment by jacob on October 6, 2010 at 4:18pm
Currently, there are a multitude of more of these very traditions in Orthodox/Rabbinic Judaim such dealing with

Not mentioning the name of YHWH

Bar and Bat Mispha

Sabbath (many commands for this one, including starting it early)

Wearing kippa

What shoe to put on first in the morning

How the calendar is set

The list goes on...
Comment by James Trimm on October 6, 2010 at 6:12pm
Jacob,

You listed the following as "Pharisaic teachings" that you say Yeshua was rebuking, I have given some corrections:

> 1) you're not allowed to eat with gentiles
>Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it,
>they said to His taught ones,
>“Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors
>and sinners?”

Ummm... all gentiles are not Tax Collectors and sinners. Also they did not say it is forbidden to do so, the simply asked Yeshua's talmidim why they were doing so. In fact modern Rabbinic Jews do not have a problem eating with gentiles, but they might question why someone was having a dinner and inviting nefarious persons as guests, there is a big difference. Essenes however would object to eating with gentiles.


>2) you're not allowed to pick food from the fields
>on the Sabbath when you are hungry

Well actually they did not allow picking of food on the Sabbath at all, "when you are hungry" being irrelevant to the issue.

>3) you're not allowed heal on the Sabbath

Actually it was Essenes who forbid healing on Sabbath altogether. Pharisees permitted healing on the Sabbath, but only if a life was at stake. Yeshua permitted healing on the Sabbath for any reason.

See:

http://nazarenespace.ning.com/group/nazarenehalacha/forum/topics/21...

>4) you must wash your hands before eating

Actually Yeshua never counters this teaching, he simply point out that it is hypocritical to be concerned with washing the hands but not with honoring parents.


>5) You must not swear falsely if you swear by the name of Yahuah (Mat 23:18-32)

Here Yeshua takes issue with a Pharisaic halachah regarding oaths and vows.

First we must understand the Pharisaic position which Yeshua is contending against. There are two tractates in the Mishnah and Talmud which deal with oaths and vows. They are: Nedarim (vows) and Shabuot (oaths). Yeshua here refers to a line of reasoning found throughout tractate Nedarim. This train of thought goes like this:

There are two kinds of prohibitions in Jewish Law:

1. Prohibition because of something being forbidden outright (such as pork).

2. Prohibitions by a designation of purpose. (such as an offered animal)

Tractate Nedarim discusses which vows are binding and which are not.

The idea is that one can make a vow and say "this item is Kodesh" (i.e. it is property of the Temple and Priesthood) and that is a vow. One could also make a vow of analogy so as to say today "this bread is kodesh" and then one could come along and say "this turkey is to me as this bread" which would also designate the turkey as kodesh by way of analogy. (m.Nedarim 1:1-4) Now if one were to say "this turkey is to me as this pig" it would not be binding because the pig was not forbidden through a vow. Since the analogy is flawed the vow is non-binding. (m.Nedarim 2:1) Moreover if one were to say "this turkey is to me like Jerusalem" the vow would not be binding because Jerusalem was designated as holy by YHWH and not by any vow of man. (m.Nedarim 1:3).

This is the halachah which Yeshua refers to in Mt. 23:18-22.

By this halachah if one were to say "this turkey is to me as the gift that is upon the alter" he would be bound by the vow. But one who would say "this turkey is to me as the alter" is not bound because the alter is made holy by YHWH and not by a vow. By the same token if one were to say "this money shall be to me as the gold of the Temple" it would be binding, but if one were to said "this money shall be to me as the Temple" it would not be binding, again because there would be no analogy.

This halacha left it open for a dishonest Pharisee to take advantage of a person who was ignorant of this halachah. He could say "I swear to you, if it is not so may all my estate be to me as the Alter" he could later back out of his oath because the phrasing of the vow was allegedly not valid.

Yeshua argues against this halachah. He clearly has Exodus 29:37-38 in mind and using the first rule of Hillel he makes a kol v'khomer argument that an analogy does exist so long as the object of the vow was kodesh and not just forbidden by Torah. Thus a vow likening something to the Temple, the Alter or Jerusalem would be binding but a vow likening it to pork would not. This is because the Temple and the Alter (and Jerusalem) are kodesh even though they were not made kodesh by a vow.

Yeshua's reasoning is that if (as indicated by Exodus 29:37-38) the alter makes the offering on it Kodesh then the analogy exists for it to make the object of the vow kodesh. This is ampliphied by the kol v'chomer (light and heavy) reasoning alluded to in Mt. 23:23 known as the first Rule of Hillel. Therefore if the offering on the alter can make the object of a vow kodesh, how much more can the alter itself.


>6) You must be an orthadox Jew (Act 15:1-11)

The phrase "orthodox Jew" is not even found in ACts 15.

For a true understanding of Acts 15 see:

http://nazarenespace.ning.com/profiles/blogs/understanding-acts-15?...



>Not mentioning the name of YHWH

Agreed.

>Bar and Bat Mispha

What is a "Mispha"? Yeshua never mentions "Mispha".

>Sabbath (many commands for this one, including starting it early)

Yeshua never mentions starting Sabbath early.

>Wearing kippa

Yeshua never mentions the issue. Although Hegessipus the Nazarene refers to the perpetrators of the apostasy as having "bare and uplifted heads".

>What shoe to put on first in the morning

Yeshua never mentions this issue, he certainly never rebukes anyone for it.

>How the calendar is set

Actually Jacob your Lunar Sabbath calendar is the invention of men, it did not even exist just a few short years ago.
Comment by James Trimm on October 6, 2010 at 6:20pm
>To all my friends and family here:
>
>I am leaving this network.
>
>If you don't want your comments deleted by the "guy in charge" for pointing out Scripture
>that controdicts what this "guy in charge" is teaching, then I encourage you to do the same.
>
>Shalom!

Shame on you Jacob, you imply that I have deleted your posts when you disagreed with me, and that is just not true. The only post I deleted was several days ago, because you proposed an alternate calendar outside the alternated calendar debate group, in violation of the rules.

Good luck to you Jacob, you will find no toleration at all for your calendar ideas in most groups, but here we created a special group for such debate.

This ning group has been among the most TOLERANT of those who disagree with us in allowing them to have their say, and that is plain to see.
Comment by george on October 7, 2010 at 11:09am
People dont like to see their source of life being attacked brother but i agree with you there are many flaws in the letters of paul and they attempt to justify paul by paul or with the one place that suposely peter speaks up for paul but if we look carefully the letters of paul and the suposed letters of peter read and write alike in character.
1Pe 3:1 ¶ Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

Eph 5:22 ¶ Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

We cansee the choice of words and topics are extreemly alike and a nother thing whoelse speaks up for the teachings of paul where are his witnesses. Where are his witnesses during his conversion. To many flaws in that mans ministry. Paul is False.

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