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Been doing some study on Hebrews 8. The context of the chapter seems to be about the priest hoods, Melch. Priesthood being superior. However when I get to verse 13 the word covenant isn't in the original Greek text. Since the context is the priest hood, in verse 13 is it the levitical priest hood that is ready to vanish?

Marc

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I'm not saying the levitical priesthood was permanately abolished!

The context of Hebrews 8 is the priest hood. The writer days that the Melch. Priesthood is better than the earthly priesthood.

Then we get to verse 13. In context he's referring the priesthood that's ready to vanish. But nowhere does he say permanately. It might of been set aside temporarily until the Messianic Temple?

Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
Impossible. Ezekiel chapters 40-48 clearly prophesy to us that the Levitical Priesthood will be in full function in the millennial kingdom. Please read the following I have said in my blog about the two priesthoods: "Melchizedek Priesthood:

1.The Melchizedek Priesthood is that which is concerned with the eternal negation of sin.
2.Eternal negation of sin can only be offered by an eternal being becoming an eternal high priest.
3.An eternal high priest must offer an eternal sacrifice in order to provide an eternal negation of sin for others.
4.Only an uncreated being, who is thus eternal, is able offer an eternal sacrifice for the eternal negation of sins, for only eternal beings have authority and power to provide eternal negation.
5.Eternal negation is achieved through recapitulation. Recapitulation is the eternal sacrifice that is offered by the eternal High Priest.
6.Recapitulation means every temptation where sin was committed by a mortal being is countered by righteousness committed in those same temptations instead by the High Priest. In order to recapitulate, you must be tempted in the same way the sinner was tempted. In order to be tempted as sinners, the High Priest must become like them in every way, and this is why the High Priest must also live as a mortal being.
7.The High Priest doing the recapitulation must also serve as a spiritual leader. Being murdered and/or sentenced to death is not necessary for recapitulation."


"Levitical Priesthood:

1.The Levitical Priesthood is that which is concerned with cleansing/purifying of amoral physical impurities/uncleanness, and to properly worship Yahuwah and give Him what He deserves and asks of us. It teaches us about the value of sacrifice and reconciliation received via that sacrifice, and it also serves to point us towards the Melchizedek Priesthood through prophetic types.
2.Only a Levite may be a priest of the Levitical Priesthood.
3.The Torah of Yahuwah only requires you to sacrifice animals if you are able to sacrifice animals.
4.You must only sacrifice animals at the Set-Apart Altar of the Levitical Priesthood.
5.The Levitical Priests must be pure in order to serve and function as legitimate priests.
7.The Levitical Priesthood has nothing, and never had anything, to do with sin, and was not replaced by the Melchizedek priesthood in any way, shape, or form."
Does it say anywhere that anyone is currently a priest of the Melchizedek priesthood, other than Yeshua?
Perhaps in the future the chosen ones may inherit the title of kings and priests of the order of Melchizedek, but I don't see anyone being "Melchizedekian priests" at this moment, save Yeshua. As for the Aaronite and Kohathite, Gershonite & Merarite priesthoods, being the Levitical priesthoods, they will presumably be re-established along with the building of the Third Temple, shortly after the Messiah's return.
I also believe the twenty four elders are reigning with YeweShua in that order.

Shalom
Hello Marc!

As you have rightly pointed out, Heb 13:8 isn't discussing the Covenant (the Torah) at all; rather, it is discussing the subject of the greater weight of the surrounding passages, the priesthood.

I believe what the author of Hebrews is saying is that Priesthood transitioned from Aaron to Melchizadek, not from Levi to Melchizadek. The functionality of Levi (as their house relates to temple service) is inconsequential to this passage.
I do believe that is correct the priesthood is transfering from Aharon to Malek Tzedek; YeweShua with 24 reigning Elders!

Shalom
First of all you need to get the original Hebrew for the Book of Hebrews in Hebrew/English parallel text from:
http://www.lulu.com/nazarene

You also need to read my commentary on Hebrews also available at:
http://www.lulu.com/nazarene

There was no fault with the first covenant, the "fault" was with us and required a RENEWAL of the covenant and a RENEWAL of the priesthood.

In the Hebrew of Ps. 110 and Hebrews it is literally "a priest by the same reason as Melchizadek" because just as Melchizadek was able to be a priest without being a Levite because he received his priesthood before that restriction was given, so also did the Messiah receive the priesthood before it was restricted to Levites.

Thus Messiah was a priest for the same reason as Melchizadek.

Also Hebrews says that Yeshua's Melchichadek priesthood was "unchangeable" which can also be translated "non-transferable".



Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
This is not possible. Let's look at Hebrews Chapter:

"Now 1161 of 1909 the things which we have spoken 3004 the sum 2774: We have 2192 such 5108 an high priest 749, who 3739 is set 2523 on 1722 the right hand 1188 of the throne 2362 of the Majesty 3172 in 1722 the heavens 3772; a minister 3011 of the sanctuary 39, and 2532 of the true 228 tabernacle 4633, which 3739 the Lord 2962 pitched 4078 , and 2532 not 3756 man 444. For 1063 every 3956 high priest 749 is ordained 2525 to 1519 offer 4374 gifts 1435 and 5037 2532 sacrifices 2378: wherefore 3606 of necessity 316 that this man 5126 have 2192 somewhat 5100 also 2532 to 3739 offer 4374 . For 1063 if 1487 3303 he were 2258 on 1909 earth 1093, he should 302 not 3761 be 2258 a priest 2409, seeing that there are 5607 priests 2409 that offer 4374 gifts 1435 according 2596 to the law 3551: Who 3748 serve 3000 unto the example 5262 and 2532 shadow 4639 of heavenly things 2032, as 2531 Moses 3475 was admonished of God 5537 when he was about 3195 to make 2005 the tabernacle 4633: for 1063, See 3708 , saith he 5346 , thou make 4160 all things 3956 according to 2596 the pattern 5179 shewed 1166 to thee 4671 in 1722 the mount 3735. But 1161 now 3570 hath he obtained 5177 a more excellent 1313 ministry 3009, by how much 3745 also 2532 he is 2076 the mediator 3316 of a better 2909 covenant 1242, which 3748 was established 3549 upon 1909 better 2909 promises 1860. For 1063 if 1487 that 1565 first 4413 had been 2258 faultless 273, then should 302 no 3756 place 5117 have been sought 2212 for the second 1208. For 1063 finding fault 3201 with them 846, he saith 3004 , Behold 2400 , the days 2250 come 2064 , saith 3004 the Lord 2962, when 2532 I will make 4931 a new 2537 covenant 1242 with 1909 the house 3624 of Israel 2474 and 2532 with 1909 the house 3624 of Judah 2455: Not 3756 according to 2596 the covenant 1242 that 3739 I made with 4160 their 846 fathers 3962 in 1722 the day 2250 when I took 1949 them 846 by the hand 3450 5495 to lead 1806 them 846 out of 1537 the land 1093 of Egypt 125; because 3754 they 846 continued 1696 not 3756 in 1722 my 3450 covenant 1242, and I 2504 regarded 272 0 them 846 not 272 , saith 3004 the Lord 2962. For 3754 this 3778 [is] the covenant 1242 that 3739 I will make 1303 with the house 3624 of Israel 2474 after 3326 those 1565 days 2250, saith 3004 the Lord 2962; I will put 1325 my 3450 laws 3551 into 1519 their 846 mind 1271, and 2532 write 1924 them 846 in 1909 their 846 hearts 2588: and 2532 I will be 2071 to 1519 them 846 a God 2316, and 2532 they 846 shall be 2071 to 1519 me 3427 a people 2992: And 2532 they shall 1321 0 not 3364 teach 1321 every man 1538 his 846 neighbour 4139, and 2532 every man 1538 his 846 brother 80, saying 3004 , Know 1097 the Lord 2962: for 3754 all 3956 shall know 1492 me 3165, from 575 the least 3398 846 to 2193 the greatest 3173 846. For 3754 I will be 2071 merciful 2436 to their 846 unrighteousness 93, and 2532 their 846 sins 266 and 2532 their 846 iniquities 458 will I remember 3415 no 3364 more 2089. In 1722 that he saith 3004 , A new 2537, he hath made 3822 0 the first 4413 old 3822 . Now 1161 that which decayeth 3822 and 2532 waxeth old 1095 ready 1451 to vanish away 854."

It says "hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, but how much also he is the mediator of a better COVENANT, which was established upon better promises." Next it says For if the first had been faultless, then should not place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, Yahuwah what Jeremiah spoke. Notice in the passage of Jeremiah, there is no discussion of the priesthood at all. Rather, its solely about the New COVENANT! Barnabas is saying that we know Yahuwah found fault with the first by what Jeremiah said, but since Jeremiah was only talking about the fault of the first covenant, it is clear we are dealing with the First Covenant vanishing, not the Aaron priesthood. Look at the passage Barnabas quotes from Jeremiah chapter 31. "I will make a new covenant"..."not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant". And then Barnabas concludes with a commentary reflection and says "In that [Jeremiah] says "A new", he has made the first old." So according to Barnabas, Jeremiah's prophecy has made the first old. The first what? The first covenant, as the context in Jeremiah clearly says. That then which is made old decays and waxes old and is read to vanish away. Notice that the old covenant does not last forever but is replaced by the (re)new(ed) covenant.



J. Jury said:
Hello Marc!

As you have rightly pointed out, Heb 13:8 isn't discussing the Covenant (the Torah) at all; rather, it is discussing the subject of the greater weight of the surrounding passages, the priesthood.

I believe what the author of Hebrews is saying is that Priesthood transitioned from Aaron to Melchizadek, not from Levi to Melchizadek. The functionality of Levi (as their house relates to temple service) is inconsequential to this passage.
That doesn't make sense. Why would the priesthood transfer from Aaron to Melchizedek? They have nothing to do with each other except that Aaron's priesthood has prophetic types of Melchizedek? Aaron has to do with amoral atonement. Melchizedek has to do with moral atonement. There is no need for Aaron to be replaced, because they are two totally different functions and purposes. To suggest Melchizedek replaces Aaron is like suggesting that the Moon replaces the Sun; it doesn't make any sense. The Sun has its purpose and function, and the Moon has its purpose and function. They do not replace each other. They are both true and purposed and functional at the same time, just like the Aaron and Melchizedek Priesthood.
Aharon was High Priest in set-apart place by proxy of YEWE, the Levites handle all the rest of the Levitical Priesthood duties of the Tabernacle and Commonwealth.

Shalom

Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
That doesn't make sense. Why would the priesthood transfer from Aaron to Melchizedek? They have nothing to do with each other except that Aaron's priesthood has prophetic types of Melchizedek? Aaron has to do with amoral atonement. Melchizedek has to do with moral atonement. There is no need for Aaron to be replaced, because they are two totally different functions and purposes. To suggest Melchizedek replaces Aaron is like suggesting that the Moon replaces the Sun; it doesn't make any sense. The Sun has its purpose and function, and the Moon has its purpose and function. They do not replace each other. They are both true and purposed and functional at the same time, just like the Aaron and Melchizedek Priesthood.
I agree with you, Rabbi James. The fault with the first one was that the Israelites weren't keeping it. The only thing different with the New Covenant is that they will be keeping it.

Shalom.



James Trimm said:
First of all you need to get the original Hebrew for the Book of Hebrews in Hebrew/English parallel text from:
http://www.lulu.com/nazarene

You also need to read my commentary on Hebrews also available at:
http://www.lulu.com/nazarene

There was no fault with the first covenant, the "fault" was with us and required a RENEWAL of the covenant and a RENEWAL of the priesthood.

In the Hebrew of Ps. 110 and Hebrews it is literally "a priest by the same reason as Melchizadek" because just as Melchizadek was able to be a priest without being a Levite because he received his priesthood before that restriction was given, so also did the Messiah receive the priesthood before it was restricted to Levites.

Thus Messiah was a priest for the same reason as Melchizadek.

Also Hebrews says that Yeshua's Melchichadek priesthood was "unchangeable" which can also be translated "non-transferable".



Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
This is not possible. Let's look at Hebrews Chapter:

"Now 1161 of 1909 the things which we have spoken 3004 the sum 2774: We have 2192 such 5108 an high priest 749, who 3739 is set 2523 on 1722 the right hand 1188 of the throne 2362 of the Majesty 3172 in 1722 the heavens 3772; a minister 3011 of the sanctuary 39, and 2532 of the true 228 tabernacle 4633, which 3739 the Lord 2962 pitched 4078 , and 2532 not 3756 man 444. For 1063 every 3956 high priest 749 is ordained 2525 to 1519 offer 4374 gifts 1435 and 5037 2532 sacrifices 2378: wherefore 3606 of necessity 316 that this man 5126 have 2192 somewhat 5100 also 2532 to 3739 offer 4374 . For 1063 if 1487 3303 he were 2258 on 1909 earth 1093, he should 302 not 3761 be 2258 a priest 2409, seeing that there are 5607 priests 2409 that offer 4374 gifts 1435 according 2596 to the law 3551: Who 3748 serve 3000 unto the example 5262 and 2532 shadow 4639 of heavenly things 2032, as 2531 Moses 3475 was admonished of God 5537 when he was about 3195 to make 2005 the tabernacle 4633: for 1063, See 3708 , saith he 5346 , thou make 4160 all things 3956 according to 2596 the pattern 5179 shewed 1166 to thee 4671 in 1722 the mount 3735. But 1161 now 3570 hath he obtained 5177 a more excellent 1313 ministry 3009, by how much 3745 also 2532 he is 2076 the mediator 3316 of a better 2909 covenant 1242, which 3748 was established 3549 upon 1909 better 2909 promises 1860. For 1063 if 1487 that 1565 first 4413 had been 2258 faultless 273, then should 302 no 3756 place 5117 have been sought 2212 for the second 1208. For 1063 finding fault 3201 with them 846, he saith 3004 , Behold 2400 , the days 2250 come 2064 , saith 3004 the Lord 2962, when 2532 I will make 4931 a new 2537 covenant 1242 with 1909 the house 3624 of Israel 2474 and 2532 with 1909 the house 3624 of Judah 2455: Not 3756 according to 2596 the covenant 1242 that 3739 I made with 4160 their 846 fathers 3962 in 1722 the day 2250 when I took 1949 them 846 by the hand 3450 5495 to lead 1806 them 846 out of 1537 the land 1093 of Egypt 125; because 3754 they 846 continued 1696 not 3756 in 1722 my 3450 covenant 1242, and I 2504 regarded 272 0 them 846 not 272 , saith 3004 the Lord 2962. For 3754 this 3778 [is] the covenant 1242 that 3739 I will make 1303 with the house 3624 of Israel 2474 after 3326 those 1565 days 2250, saith 3004 the Lord 2962; I will put 1325 my 3450 laws 3551 into 1519 their 846 mind 1271, and 2532 write 1924 them 846 in 1909 their 846 hearts 2588: and 2532 I will be 2071 to 1519 them 846 a God 2316, and 2532 they 846 shall be 2071 to 1519 me 3427 a people 2992: And 2532 they shall 1321 0 not 3364 teach 1321 every man 1538 his 846 neighbour 4139, and 2532 every man 1538 his 846 brother 80, saying 3004 , Know 1097 the Lord 2962: for 3754 all 3956 shall know 1492 me 3165, from 575 the least 3398 846 to 2193 the greatest 3173 846. For 3754 I will be 2071 merciful 2436 to their 846 unrighteousness 93, and 2532 their 846 sins 266 and 2532 their 846 iniquities 458 will I remember 3415 no 3364 more 2089. In 1722 that he saith 3004 , A new 2537, he hath made 3822 0 the first 4413 old 3822 . Now 1161 that which decayeth 3822 and 2532 waxeth old 1095 ready 1451 to vanish away 854."

It says "hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, but how much also he is the mediator of a better COVENANT, which was established upon better promises." Next it says For if the first had been faultless, then should not place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, Yahuwah what Jeremiah spoke. Notice in the passage of Jeremiah, there is no discussion of the priesthood at all. Rather, its solely about the New COVENANT! Barnabas is saying that we know Yahuwah found fault with the first by what Jeremiah said, but since Jeremiah was only talking about the fault of the first covenant, it is clear we are dealing with the First Covenant vanishing, not the Aaron priesthood. Look at the passage Barnabas quotes from Jeremiah chapter 31. "I will make a new covenant"..."not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant". And then Barnabas concludes with a commentary reflection and says "In that [Jeremiah] says "A new", he has made the first old." So according to Barnabas, Jeremiah's prophecy has made the first old. The first what? The first covenant, as the context in Jeremiah clearly says. That then which is made old decays and waxes old and is read to vanish away. Notice that the old covenant does not last forever but is replaced by the (re)new(ed) covenant.



J. Jury said:
Hello Marc!

As you have rightly pointed out, Heb 13:8 isn't discussing the Covenant (the Torah) at all; rather, it is discussing the subject of the greater weight of the surrounding passages, the priesthood.

I believe what the author of Hebrews is saying is that Priesthood transitioned from Aaron to Melchizadek, not from Levi to Melchizadek. The functionality of Levi (as their house relates to temple service) is inconsequential to this passage.
Andrew,

Aaron = High Priest
Melchizadek = High Priest

Melchizadek has nothing to do with the Levites, in the same sense that Aaron really has nothing to do with the Levites.


sevynn leverette said:
Aharon was High Priest in set-apart place by proxy of YEWE, the Levites handle all the rest of the Levitical Priesthood duties of the Tabernacle and Commonwealth.

Shalom

Anayahu Priel (Andrew P) Carlson said:
That doesn't make sense. Why would the priesthood transfer from Aaron to Melchizedek? They have nothing to do with each other except that Aaron's priesthood has prophetic types of Melchizedek? Aaron has to do with amoral atonement. Melchizedek has to do with moral atonement. There is no need for Aaron to be replaced, because they are two totally different functions and purposes. To suggest Melchizedek replaces Aaron is like suggesting that the Moon replaces the Sun; it doesn't make any sense. The Sun has its purpose and function, and the Moon has its purpose and function. They do not replace each other. They are both true and purposed and functional at the same time, just like the Aaron and Melchizedek Priesthood.
Aaron=High Priest of the Levitical Priesthod
Melchizedek=High Priest of the Melchizedek Priesthod
Sun=Ruler of the Day
Moon=Ruler of the Night
Day and Night Co-Exist and do not replace each other and have two totally different and separate functions and purposes.
Likewise, Levitical and Melchizedek Priesthood co-exist and do not replace each other and have two totally different and separate functions and purposes. Where is it mentioned that Melchizedek has anything to do with the Levites? And i think its very clear that Aaron has to do with the Levites, as this is made explicitly clear in Scripture if I am not mistaken.
I define it this way: the Levitical Priesthood is eternal. But, the Levitical Priesthood is defined as follows: Levitical Priesthood is for the amoral atonement of mortals. Therefore, the Levitical Priesthood is not abolished. It remains in effect. But, since no mortal will exist, the Levitical Priesthood will never be applied, but it does not get abolished. Likewise, the laws of uncleanness for women who menstruate. If all women ceased to exist, that does not mean the cleanliness laws were abolished. It simply means that it will not be applied because there is no one to apply it to. When/if there is someone to apply it to, then it will be applied because it will never be removed. the same for the levitical priesthood.

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