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Messiah was Born on Sukkot (Not Dec. 25th)

Birth of Yeshua at Sukkot Luke 2:1-7
By James Trimm


2:1-2 And it happened that in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the Land should be enrolled. This enrollment first happened during the governorship of Quirinius in Syria. –

that all the Land should be enrolled - “all the Land” The Old Syriac Aramaic has )(r) hlwk which is ambiguous in Aramaic. )(r) (Strong's #772) is the Aramaic equivalent of Hebrew Cr) eretz (Strong's 776). This word can mean "world" (as in Prov. 19:4) "earth" (as in Dan. 2:35) or "land" (as in Dan. 9:15) and is often used as a euphemism for "The Land of Israel" (as in Dan. 9:6). The Greek translator mistook the word to mean “world” here causing scholars to mistakenly think that Luke was speaking of one of the three empire-wide censuses which were in 28 B.C., 8 B.C., and 14 A.D. None of these dates fits well with the time of the birth of Messiah. However we learn from the Aramaic text that Luke actually refers a much smaller local census and not one of these empire-wide censuses at all. This is supported by the fact that Luke uses the phrase “this enrollment first happened” so as to contrast this enrollment by another ordered by Quirinius in 6 C.E. which Luke mentions in his second book (Acts 5:37). That census was a local census of Judah and so it stands to reason that this census was also a local census of Judah or “Ha-Eretz” “The Land” as well.

during the governorship of Quirinius in Syria - This is the reading of the Peshitta. The Old Syriac Aramaic says “in the years of Quirinius governor of Syria” .

His full name was Publius Sulpicius Quirinius. Skeptics have made much of the fact that Quirinius is known to have become Governor of Syria in 6 C.E. (several years to late to fit the time of Yeshua’s birth). However there are two very workable solutions to this apparent problem.

The first is that Quirinius may have served as governor of Syria once before, perhaps as a military governor, prior to his installation in 6 C.E.. A Latin inscription has been found recording the career of a distinguished Roman officer who, when he became imperial legate of Syria entered upon that office ‘for the second time’ (Lat. iterum). This Roman officer could very well be Quirinius.

The second is that “the years of Quirinius” actually began before he actually became governor of Syria. Quirinius was governing in Syria as a Roman Senator in charge of being the assessor of property in Syria as well as Judea (which the Romans regarded as part of Syria). His name was also mentioned in "Res Gestae - The Deeds of Augustus by Augustus" which was found in the city of Antioch Pisidia placing him as consul as early as 12 B.C.. The Greek geographer and historian Strabo (circa 63 B.C. - circa A.D. 23), seems to indicate Quirinius may have been in Syria with a special commission for military operations between 10 and 7 B.C. Moreover the Roman historian Tacitus mentions that Quirinius was appointed by Augustus to be an advisor to his young son Caius Caesar in Armenia. Caius was sent to administer Syria in 1 C.E. with Quirininus as his advisor. So there is good evidence that “the years of Quirinius” in Syria began several years before his installation as governor in 6 C.E..

2:7 and laid him in a manger – Or a Sukkah booth.

There is evidence that Yeshua was born at Sukkot. The key to calculating the date of the birth of Messiah is Luke 1:5 where we learn that Zechariah the father of Yochanan was a priest of the course of Abijah.

The priests became to numerous to all serve at the Temple all the time,
so they were divided into 24 courses (1Chron. 24). Each course served
for two weeks each year, once in the former rain (first half of the
year) and once in the latter rain (second half of the year). There were
also three weeks in which all the priests were required to serve, these
were the three pilgrimage festivals (Dt. 16:16). 24 times 2 is 48 plus
three is 51. 51 weeks is 357 days fitting nicely within the 360 day
lunar year.

The course of Abijah is the eighth course (1Chron. 24:10) which
serves the tenth week during the former rain portion of the year (this
is because during Passover and Shavuot (Pentecost) all for the priests
serve together Dt. 16:16). Zechariah had his vision while serving in
the course of Abijah in the tenth week (It will become apparent that he
was serving his first course not his second as the timing will show as
we progress). Thus Zechariah's vision took place during the 10th week of the year (The religious year beginning at Nisan/Abib around 14 days before Passover). We must add two additional weeks before Yochanon (John) could be conceived, due to the purity laws (Lev. 12:5; 15:19, 25). So Yochanon was concieved in the 12th week of the year. He was born about 40 weeks later during the 52nd week of the year (12 + 40 = 52) which brings us to Passover. Thus Yochanon was born at Passover, the very time that Elijah was, according to Jewish tradition, supposed to appear.

Yeshua was conceived 6 months (about 25 weeks) after Yochanon's
conception. This means Yeshua was conceived around the 37th week around Chanukah. This would mean the light of the world was conceived during the festival of lights.

Yeshua was born 40 weeks later (around week 77 that is week 25 of the following year) this brings us to the time of the fall feasts.

There are several clues that Yeshua was born at Sukkot:

1. Bethleham was "booked solid." This would not have been due
census which would have taken place over the period of a year.
Every Jew was required to come to Jerusalem for Sukkot (Dt. 16:16)
this would have over run Jerusalem as well as Bethleham just
five miles away.

2. Yeshua was born in a “manger” or stable. The Hebrew word for "stable" is "sukkah" (as in Gen. 33:17) so it is likely that Yeshua was born in a Sukkah/booth.

3. If Yeshua was born on the first day of Sukkot then he would
have been circumcised on the "eighth great day" a festival following
Sukkot. This day was the original "Simchat Torah" (Rejoicing in
the Torah) which is now held the following day in Rabbinic Judaism.
So Yeshua would have entered the covenant on the day of "rejoicing
in the Torah."

4. When the angels appeared to the shepherds they made a statement
which closely echoes the ancient Sukkot liturgy "...behold, we have come to declare to you glad tidings of great joy." (Lk. 2:10-11)

5. Sukkot is symbolic of God dwelling in a "tabernacle" (body?)
with us.

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Nope, Messiah was born on December 25, 4 BC.

That year it was also Chislev 25.

You can fool many, but not the few remnant who know that during a future Chanukah

the light of the remnant will overcome the anti Messiah.

Sorry, you need to study Torah and history.

Are you interested in proving your position, or in simply berating those who do not agree ?
Even if you suspect you won't convince me, you can present your evidence so the world can read it.

Tanak said:

Nope, Messiah was born on December 25, 4 BC.

That year it was also Chislev 25.

You can fool many, but not the few remnant who know that during a future Chanukah

the light of the remnant will overcome the anti Messiah.

Sorry, you need to study Torah and history.

boy, i think it is you who need to study more of the historical/cultural backdrop of the NT.

a) how will you count the number of days from Isabel's conception of John? Yeshua's birth cannot fall on december;

b) no shepherd will ever go out pasturing his flock in the cold night of december;

c) lastly, why would the lodging houses in Jerusalem be full on that month? that is senseless accounting; this shortage of rooms in Jerusalem and neighboring towns can only occur during the Jewish pilgrimage  seasons of sukoth, pesach and shavu'oth when all men (of israel) are commanded by G-d to make pilgrimage to Jerusalem.



Tanak said:

Nope, Messiah was born on December 25, 4 BC.

That year it was also Chislev 25.

You can fool many, but not the few remnant who know that during a future Chanukah

the light of the remnant will overcome the anti Messiah.

Sorry, you need to study Torah and history.

Let's not forget:

Joseph and Mary were there for: " The Roman Census " - that was conducted between March and April of that year, according to historical and verifiable Roman Documents from that given time period!

In either case, however, we have been commanded ' Not To Celebrate Birthdays ' for they are of Pagan Origin.


beryl etanah said:

boy, i think it is you who need to study more of the historical/cultural backdrop of the NT.

a) how will you count the number of days from Isabel's conception of John? Yeshua's birth cannot fall on december;

b) no shepherd will ever go out pasturing his flock in the cold night of december;

c) lastly, why would the lodging houses in Jerusalem be full on that month? that is senseless accounting; this shortage of rooms in Jerusalem and neighboring towns can only occur during the Jewish pilgrimage  seasons of sukoth, pesach and shavu'oth when all men (of israel) are commanded by G-d to make pilgrimage to Jerusalem.



Tanak said:

Nope, Messiah was born on December 25, 4 BC.

That year it was also Chislev 25.

You can fool many, but not the few remnant who know that during a future Chanukah

the light of the remnant will overcome the anti Messiah.

Sorry, you need to study Torah and history.

1.  The Greek translator mistook the word to mean “world” here causing scholars to mistakenly think that Luke was speaking of one of the three empire-wide censuses which were in 28 B.C., 8 B.C., and 14 A.D. None of these dates fits well with the time of the birth of Messiah. However we learn from the Aramaic text that Luke actually refers a much smaller local census and not one of these empire-wide censuses at all. This is supported by the fact that Luke uses the phrase “this enrollment first happened” so as to contrast this enrollment by another ordered by Quirinius in 6 C.E. which Luke mentions in his second book (Acts 5:37). That census was a local census of Judah and so it stands to reason that this census was also a local census of Judah or “Ha-Eretz” “The Land” as well.

2.  There is no place where we are told that celebrating birthdays is forbidden.  In fact the Hebrews made occasion of at least certain birthdays.  On the 13th birthday a boy was said to become a man (certainly an occasion to celebrate).  When one turned Twenty, one was responsible to pay the Temple Tax (Ex. 30:11-16), and a priest started his mistry on his 30th birthday.  It seems very likely that the ancient Hebrews made an observance of their birthdays as they went by as they were clearly meticulous about noting and keeping track of  them.

frank, you have a good point in that. birthdays are not celebrated among the ancient and the ultra religious today. although j.Trimm is correct that "there is no express injunction in torah to prohibit celebrating birthdays" this traditional prohibition is founded upon the halacha that prohibits us to "walk according to their ways (observances)". this jewish tradition is ancient and i do believe it was founded upon sound wisdom in interpreting a general provision in torah to that effect.

however, in the issue of december 25, we do not say we celebrate it other dates, it is only a point of objection that december 25 could never be an accurate date because of so and so. where is it written in the NT that Miriam habtolah prepared Him a birthday cake? none.  because in their time this halacha, non-observance of birthdays, was already a matter of jewish life.



Frank Barbour said:

Let's not forget:

Joseph and Mary were there for: " The Roman Census " - that was conducted between March and April of that year, according to historical and verifiable Roman Documents from that given time period!

In either case, however, we have been commanded ' Not To Celebrate Birthdays ' for they are of Pagan Origin.


beryl etanah said:

boy, i think it is you who need to study more of the historical/cultural backdrop of the NT.

a) how will you count the number of days from Isabel's conception of John? Yeshua's birth cannot fall on december;

b) no shepherd will ever go out pasturing his flock in the cold night of december;

c) lastly, why would the lodging houses in Jerusalem be full on that month? that is senseless accounting; this shortage of rooms in Jerusalem and neighboring towns can only occur during the Jewish pilgrimage  seasons of sukoth, pesach and shavu'oth when all men (of israel) are commanded by G-d to make pilgrimage to Jerusalem.



Tanak said:

Nope, Messiah was born on December 25, 4 BC.

That year it was also Chislev 25.

You can fool many, but not the few remnant who know that during a future Chanukah

the light of the remnant will overcome the anti Messiah.

Sorry, you need to study Torah and history.

@ beryl,

I fully understand that you didn't imply we should celebrate it upon another date. I was merely responding to Tanak's dogmatic belief in ' That Long-Refuted Hoax Perpetrated And Perpetuated By Spiritual Babylon '!

As for The Celebrations Of Birthdays, if you study the scriptures closely you will notice that every single time a birthday celebration is noted within them something horribly bad happens... such as: King Herod getting roped into John The Baptists murder by his foolish birthday promise to Herodotus, etc.... The point being made, of course, is that paganism and its evil [ or self-centered ] customs bring their own curses upon us!

In fact, the majority of The Prophets either: Cursed or Lamented - the days that they themselves were born... and, they should be our own well-heeded examples!

Shalom.

beryl etanah said:

frank, you have a good point in that. birthdays are not celebrated among the ancient and the ultra religious today. although j.Trimm is correct that "there is no express injunction in torah to prohibit celebrating birthdays" this traditional prohibition is founded upon the halacha that prohibits us to "walk according to their ways (observances)". this jewish tradition is ancient and i do believe it was founded upon sound wisdom in interpreting a general provision in torah to that effect.

however, in the issue of december 25, we do not say we celebrate it other dates, it is only a point of objection that december 25 could never be an accurate date because of so and so. where is it written in the NT that Miriam habtolah prepared Him a birthday cake? none.  because in their time this halacha, non-observance of birthdays, was already a matter of jewish life.



Frank Barbour said:

Let's not forget:

Joseph and Mary were there for: " The Roman Census " - that was conducted between March and April of that year, according to historical and verifiable Roman Documents from that given time period!

In either case, however, we have been commanded ' Not To Celebrate Birthdays ' for they are of Pagan Origin.


beryl etanah said:

boy, i think it is you who need to study more of the historical/cultural backdrop of the NT.

a) how will you count the number of days from Isabel's conception of John? Yeshua's birth cannot fall on december;

b) no shepherd will ever go out pasturing his flock in the cold night of december;

c) lastly, why would the lodging houses in Jerusalem be full on that month? that is senseless accounting; this shortage of rooms in Jerusalem and neighboring towns can only occur during the Jewish pilgrimage  seasons of sukoth, pesach and shavu'oth when all men (of israel) are commanded by G-d to make pilgrimage to Jerusalem.



Tanak said:

Nope, Messiah was born on December 25, 4 BC.

That year it was also Chislev 25.

You can fool many, but not the few remnant who know that during a future Chanukah

the light of the remnant will overcome the anti Messiah.

Sorry, you need to study Torah and history.

I think you read to much into a single incident. 

Since you don't celebrate Christmas, what point are you trying to make ?
Are we now talking about birthdays in general ?


James Trimm said:

I think you read to much into a single incident. 

yes

Solomon Avar said:

Since you don't celebrate Christmas, what point are you trying to make ?
Are we now talking about birthdays in general ?


James Trimm said:

I think you read to much into a single incident. 

James i know how difficult it is for a leader like you to make a singular stand over the matter: you could lose many of your congregants or part of their sympathies.

but my friendly advice is that you should take a stand in favor of the ancient halacha. be strong and be honest in your doctrine, it is where you can make your mark in history, while i see (me only) you are becoming one major mover of nazarinism in the webworld.

@ James.

Actually, James, there are several other ' Birthday Incidents ' to be found within the scriptures.

For instance in Genesis 40:20-23 we can read:

"Now it came to pass upon the third day, which was Pharoah's Birthday, that he made a feast for all of his servants; and he lifted up the head of the chief butler [ or, Cup Bearer ] and of the chief baker among his servants. Then he restored the chief butler to his butlership again, and he placed the cup in Pharoah's hand. But he hanged the chief baker, as Joseph had interpreted the dream to them.

Yet, the chief butler did not remember Joseph, but forgot him. "

Shalom.

James Trimm said:

I think you read to much into a single incident. 

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