Dael L. McCoyle said:
Question, How can Michael and Gabriel be the two witness? Michael is the Prince of Israel. Yeshua is the Prince of Israel. So, we see Michael the Prince coming to help Israel in the time of need as the Host of the Lord, which is what the Messiah is also called. So it seems that Michael was the name of the Son of the King before it was changed to Yeshua to fulfill that mission as all who have had their names changed to fulfill missions. Yeshua will again have His named changed when He returns that no mane knows it.
Also, where do you find this, one is a messenger and one is a warrior from the Scriptures? Book, and verse please because Scripture is clear that the two olive trees are the Houses of Israel and Judah. Even the prophecy of Ezekiel with the two sticks is in context with the Houses being Judah and Israel unless I have missed the Scriptures you refer to?
Greetings and shalom, b'Shem Yehoshua HaMashiach,
Thank you for this prophetic and messianic subject! Wonderful question indeed, and I would like to give a clue about who the two witnesses are. It is written and we read according to Revelation 11:4: "These are the two olive trees and the two lamps which stand before The Owner of the earth". We read that "they stand before The Owner of the earth". Enoch and Eliyah or Moshe and Eliyah were dead, sleeping and waiting for the resurrection of the dead in their graves. The two witnesses still stand before The Owner of the earth. They are alive standing before YHVH, One is His Messenger and the Other is a Warrior. They are the two Witnesses of Yehoshua HaMashiach.
Thank you for your interest and for seeking for the Truth!
Shalom, shamira you believe yehoshua is Michael that is what Jehovah witnesses believe
The 2 witnesses mentioned at Rev 11 cannot be the 2 houses. There is nothing in scripture stating both houses (billions of people) will lie dead in Yerusalem in last days. Furthermore, The (apostate) House of Israel has been divorced from the Eternal can only be grafted into to Judah (NJ) to regain right standing and once again be part of the (True) Assembly of Israel. My best guess.... 1st 2 listed in opening post, Elijah and Enoch. These are the only 2 humans that HAVE NOT YET died ...prior to His return.
Heb 9:27 And as it awaits men to die once, and after this the judgment, (ISR)
You miss the fact that time exists only in time-space not in heaven. In fact even within our universe, time is relative. It is entirely possible for years to stop passing for Enoch while he is in heaven, while time still passes for us.
Ne we say the fact that time is relative means that years can stop passing for Enoch when he was taken to heaven without his having to die.
The Book of Enoch was treasured by the ancient Nazarenes as an inspired book of prophecy authored by Enoch himself.
Yeshua's own half-brother Y'hudah quotes from the Book of Enoch saying:
"And Chanokh [Enoch], the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men saying: Behold, YHWH comes with ten thousands of his set-apart-ones, to execute judgment on all, co convict all who are wicked among them of their wicked deeds which they have committed in a wicked way, and all the harsh things which wicked sinners have spoken against him."
(Y'hudah / Jude 1:14-15 HRV)
Some commentators have tried to minimize the importance of this quotation, claiming that Y'hudah was only quoting the Book of Enoch in the way that Paul quoted Greek philosophers. In fact there are two very important features in Y'hudah's citation.
First of all, while the Book of Enoch is quoted (specifically 1 Enoch 1:9), Y'hudah attributes his quote, not to the Book of Enoch, but to the man Enoch (Enoch, seventh from Adam). Since we have copies of the Book of Enoch which predate the Book of Y'hudah, this quote tells us that Enoch seventh from Adam wrote the Book of Enoch.
Secondly Y'hudah uses the word "prophecy". Y'hudah tells us that this quote from Enoch which comes from the Book of Enoch is "prophecy". That is a very important statement.
Regarding prophecy Kefa (Peter) writes:
""Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation; for prophecy never came by the will of man, but set-apart men of Eloah spoke as they were moved by the Ruach HaKodesh."
(2 Kefa / 2 Peter 1:20-21 - HRV)
So if, as Y'hudah tells us, the Book of Enoch is "prophecy" then Kefa tells us that it was inspired by the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit).
Paul has some important words for us about Scripture that is inspired:
"Every writing which was written by the spirit is profitable for teaching and for reproof and for correction and for instruction in righteousness, that the son of man of Eloah may be complete and whole for every good work."
(2 Timothy 3:16-17 - HRV)
So if the Book of Enoch is prophecy then it was inspired by the Ruach HaKodesh. And if Enoch was inspired by the Ruach then it is profitable for teaching and for reproof and for correction and for instruction in righteousness.
In other words, if Y'hudah is telling the truth then we should be using the Book of Enoch as Scripture and not taking it lightly!
To my way of thinking you are working backwards. You are starting with an understanding of what Scripture should teach, and then judging the text against that standard. We should actually work the other way around, start with the text, and develope doctrines from the text. In other words we don't say "Enoch can't be Scripture because it does not teach what I wanted it to teach."
You can find "scholars" who will use similar criteria to argue that Daniel did not write the Book of Daniel.
So lets look at the facts:
1. Jude 1:14-15 quotes "Enoch" citing the very sme material found in 1Enoch 1:9.
2. Seven copies of the Book of Enoch were found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, which include 1Enoch 1:9.
3. The seven copies of The Book of Enoch found among the Dead Sea Scrolls predate Jude by over 200 years.
The natural conclusion is that Jude is quoting the Book of Enoch. To speculate that both documents are incorporating an Enoch quote found in some other now lost Enoch document is a stretch. There is simply no evidence to support this, it is built on nothing more than imagination.
In fact R. H. Charles listed 128 other places where the "New Testament" makes use of material from the Book of Enoch.
Lets not introduce confusion that has nothing to do with the question at hand. Yes there is debate about the "Book of Parables" portion of the Book of Enoch (Chapters 37-71. The seven copies found among the Dead Sea Scrolls are fragmentary, and none of the fragments are from this section. Milik has suggested that these copies contained the "Book of Giants" (copies of which were found at Qumran) in place of the Book of Parables, but this is also speculative. However the portion quoted in Jude is from the "Book of Watchers" section (Chapters 1-36) which is attested to in the scrolls and which is not in controversy.
The "Astronomical Book" (The Calendar Section) is controversial for other reasons.
The complete text survives only in an Ethiopic translation. In regards to the Calendar section, enough of the Aramaic survives to make it clear that it did not closely agree with the surviving Ethiopic Version, yet not enough of the Aramaic survives to reconstruct its meaning. Moreover there is question as to whether the calendar presented in 1st Enoch was intended as an actual alternative to the traditional Hebrew calendar for the keeping of feasts, or had some other use, perhaps astronomical.
Most recently I have written an article demonstrating that the calendar section of Enoch is not laying out a calendar to use today, but recording how the calendar did work in preflood times before the fal of the fallen angels. ( http://nazarenejudaism.com/?page_id=257 )
But again the confusion over the calendar section does not impact our issue, since 1Enoch 1:9 is not in that section.
Both Eliyahu and Moshe.
Both Efrayim and Yehudah.
Both literal and figurative.
One witness against the unbelievers that they crucified Messiah is that they kill the true believers.
The Hebrew word for "Heaven" (SHAMAYIM) can refer to seven different places in Scripture, so there is no problem with that.
I will write more later, I am a bit pressed for time tonight.
"Adding to scripture" can occur when we contradict it also. Heb 11 plainly states...
Heb 11:5 By belief, Ḥanoḵ was translated so as not to see death, “and was not found because Elohim had translated him.” For before his translation he obtained witness, that he pleased Elohim. (ISR)
This fact does not indicate Enoch is included in the "all these" mentioned later in the same chapter.
To say that Enoch and Elijah didn't die is adding to Scripture, something that we are not supposed to do, We know that neither went to heaven for Yeshua said in John 3:13, "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven". This verse knocks out Enoch and Elijah for both are sleeping with their fathers.
EliYahu and Hanoch,because they are the only people who never died!