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The phrase "Angel of the Lord" appears several times in Scripture.

Is the "Angel of the Lord" a generic term for an angel?

Is the "Angel of the Lord" the Messiah"?

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C Mika'el Johnson said:

Yes my brother...the angel or messenger in Hebrews received a new name. I believe that name was changed from Micheal  to Yahushua.

 

Wow, sad to hear your conclusion C Mika'el Johnson. Sounds like Jehovah Witness has gone Hebrew Roots flavor "Yahuwah Witness"!

 

If u turn Lord Yeshua into Michael Angel, we have a whole lot of contradictions to deal with. I'll try to explain as briefly as possible, don't have much time.

 

John 8:56  “Your father Abraham was glad that he should see My day, and he saw it and did rejoice.”  57  The Yehudim, therefore, said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”  58  יהושע said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I am.”

Lord Yeshua here is referring to Genesis 17 and 18. Pick any day out of those 2 that you like, just in case you bring any argument.

In Gen 17:1 And it came to be when Abram was ninety-nine years old, that יהוה appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Ěl Shaddai – walk before Me and be perfect.

In Gen 18 :1  And יהוה appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamrĕ, while he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day.  2  So he lifted his eyes and looked, and saw three men standing opposite him. And when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground,  3  and said, “יהוה, if I have now found favour in Your eyes, please do not pass Your servant by.  4  “Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree.

Have your pick in Gen 17, El Shaddai appeared to Abram, and in Gen 18 YHVH appeared to Abraham.

I know both El Shaddai and YHVH are same but for your sake even if I assume they are different, they certainly are not Mikhael Angel. (just in case if u argue back that either One of Them is Michael, since you claim that Michael's name changed to Yahushua later) .

So this is the day when Abraham rejoiced to see El Shaddai, YHVH, or Lord Yeshua as per John 8:56

 

Furthermore YHVH in Gen 18 stays behind with Abraham but other two go to Sodom and Gomorrah.

 Gen 18:21 “I am going down now to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me, and if not, I know.”  22  So the men turned away from there and went toward Seḏom, butיהוה still stood before Aḇraham.  23  And Abraham drew near and said, “Would You also destroy the righteous with the wrong?

 

Now here is the Chilling verse.

Genesis 19:24  And יהוה rained sulphur and fire on Sedom and Amorah, from יהוה out of the heavens.  

24  וַֽיהוָ֗הH3068 A·do·Nai Then the LORD הִמְטִ֧ירH4305 him·Tir rained עַל־H5921 'al- on סְדֹ֛םH5467 se·Dom upon Sodom וְעַל־H5921 ve·'al- and עֲמֹרָ֖הH6017 'a·mo·Rah and upon Gomorrah גָּפְרִ֣יתH1614 ga·fe·Rit brimstone וָאֵ֑שׁH784 va·'Esh; and fire מֵאֵ֥תH853 me·'Et  יְהוָ֖הH3068 A·do·Nai from the LORD מִן־H4480 min- out הַשָּׁמָֽיִם׃H8064 hash·sha·Ma·yim. out of heaven

Wow we have 2 YHVHs here?! Could They be YHVH The Father and YHVH The Son?

 

Now notice that this YHVH Whom Lord Yeshua claims to be in John 8:56 is not hesitating to bring judgement on Sodom and Gomorrah, unlike Michael is in Jude 1:9

 

Even better, Exodus 6:2 clarifies that El Shaddai of Abraham (Who Lord Yeshua claims to be in John 8:56-58) is the same One Whom Moses saw in burning Bush etc.

Exodus 6:2  And Elohim spoke to Mosheh and said to him, “I am יהוה.  3  “And I appeared to Abraham, toYitshaq, and to Yaaqovḇ, as ĚlShaddai. And by My Name, יהוה, was I not known to them?

 

Now connect the dots.

* Lord Yeshua says that He is the same One Whom Abraham rejoiced to see. John 8:56

* Before Abraham was I Am. John 8:58 Make no mistakes by twisting the meaning of this I AM that Lord Yeshua claims to be, because in the very next verse Jews picked up stones to kill Him, which clearly indicates that Lord Yeshua is saying that He is YHVH of Gen 18 Who appeared to Abraham. Notice they wouldn't have tried to kill Lord Yeshua if He was claiming to be any of the other two angels of Gen 18.

* This same YHVH the Son rains fire and sulphur on Sodom and Gomorrah from YHVH the Father out of sky. Gen 19:24

*This is the same YHVH who met Moses and Abraham according to Exodus 6:2

 

So Who does that make Lord Yeshua to be? Clearly YHVH the Son.

Now let's see Michael

1. For one Michael the Arch Angel in Jude 1:9 did not dare to bring against Satan a blasphemous judgment.

But the same Michael with his angels wages war in Rev 12:7 against Dragon (AKA Old serpent/Satan according to Rev 12:9) and was able to overcome Satan in Rev 12:11 with what? THE BLOOD OF LAMB.

If u are right Johnson, then Rev 12 should say that Yeshua along with his angels was able to defeat Satan with his blood, not the blood of the Lamb.

2. Secondly According to Daniel 10:13 Michael is one of the chief princes... Not The Only One as YHVH the Son is.

וְהִנֵּ֣הH2009 ve·hin·Neh behold מִֽיכָאֵ֗לH4317 mi·cha·'El, but lo Michael אַחַ֛דH259 'a·Chad one הַשָּׂרִ֥יםH8269 has·sa·Rim princes הָרִאשֹׁנִ֖יםH7223 ha·ri·sho·Nim of the chief בָּ֣אH935 ba came

Here's another problem if Michael is Yeshua. Psalm 33:6 says  6  By the Word of יהוה the heavens were made, And all their host by the breath  of His mouth,

So if all the hosts are made by the breath of YHVHs mouth then Michael is also made by the breath of YHVH. Now if Michael is Yeshua as u say then Yeshua is also made by the breath of YHVH and so are all the other Hosts. Then how do you justify John 1:3 that all came to be through Lord Yeshua and without Him nothing came to be that ever came to be?

Keep this verse in mind also.. 2Thessalonians 2:8  And then the lawless one shall be revealed, whom the Master (Lord Yeshua the Messiah) shall consume with the breath of His mouth and bring to naught with the manifestation of His coming.

Deal with this also..

Proverbs 8 (Wisdom of YHVH, through Whom everything is created)  22  “יהוה possessed me, The beginning of His way, As the first of His works of old.

 

Notice it says possessed me in the beginning, not created me. Wisdom/Word was never created, He coexisted with YHVH. Wisdom is never created, Wisdom just IS. Wisdom has no beginning or end. One simply possesses Wisdom or acquires.

 Pro 8:27  “When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He decreed a vault on the face of the deep,

Notice Wisdom was there when YHVH created heavens, and after heavens He created the host of the heaven by the Wisdom/Spirit/Breath/Word/YHVH the Son/Lord Yeshua of His mouth/WORD. Psalm 33:6

Now read 1Corinthians 1:24: but to those who are called – both Yehudim and Greeks – Messiah the power of Elohim and the wisdom of Elohim.

 

There is way to much evidence that Lord Yeshua the Messiah cannot be Michael Angel, but this should be sufficient for now.

Keep one thing in mind, if one can say that Father is greater than the Son, than by No means one finds any evidence in scriptures that the Son is any lesser than the Father. And anyone who claims to make YHVH the Son any lesser than the YHVH the Father, better yet Michael Angel one of the chief princes as Daniel 10:13 says, than they might be at risk of committing serious blasphemy against YHVH.

DO U WANNA TAKE THAT CHANCE?

MAY THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD GUIDE YOU, IN LORD YESHUA'S NAME.



C Mika'el Johnson said:

Yes my brother...the angel or messenger in Hebrews received a new name. I believe that name was changed from Micheal  to Yahushua.

Mika'el and James, I enjoyed your discussion some of which I couldn't follow because I don't read Hebrew. However, I do have some thoughts on the Archangel Michael. I write on the Bible +1 website, Community Notes, if you have time to check that out. My comments there are signed "Linda". Here are some of my thoughts on Michael.
“Can you compare me to anyone?
No one is equal to me or like me." --Isaiah 46:5 NCV

The name "Michael" means "Who is like God?" It seems to me that it is a question, not a statement. The implied answer is "No one."

Imagine Satan and his fallen angels as they contend with or fight the archangel Michael, whose name means "Who is like God?" (as it is reported Satan did for the body of Moses in Jude 1:9 or in Daniel 10 the angel messenger fighting the prince of Persia or the prince of Greece--would these last two princes be Satan or fallen angels?) Imagine the Evil One's first sight of Michael each time they meet, and the recognition of his adversary. In anger he thinks, "Oh, it's Michael! It's Who Is Like God?!" And then imagine he calls to him, "Michael!" Being translated, "Who Is Like God?!" There is no way he (or they) can evade the question or the rhetorical answer, "Who is like God? No one." He is eternally reminded of his folly--thinking he could be like God. What irony. What poetic justice.
Linda

Thank you for your thoughts on the subject. I will will read your texts further. Also i came to the conclusion I did on my own studying the term "Angel of YHWH"  Also as i stated Hebrews talks about an angel receiving a new name. 

 

Exodus 23:20-23King James Version (KJV)

20 Behold, I send an Angel (Messenger) before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

As I recall only two beings have the sacred name. Yahuwah and Yahushua. Here is reference from YHWH about an Angel that has His name in Him. This is just one of many verses on the subject we are discussing. Again I enjoyed your reply, and i will look into it deeper.

Shalom  

Many Rabbis consider that the name of the first created being in the Bereshit is Yehoshua, the Middle Pillar of the G-dhead, Moshiach, the One who brought Peace to the Heavenly realm. His Name, if indeed the Rabbis are correct, has never been changed as it has always been Yehoshua or Yeshua for short. I am unsure how one can go from this one to the one of the second Temple period though.
Any thoughts on that R. Trimm?
I have to rely on the KJV translation as well as the reaction of the angel. When "Angel of The Lord" is capitalized in the KJV, it seems to be the pre-incarnate Christ. When "angel of The Lord" is not capitalized, or when the angel rejects worship by the human he is speaking to, it seems to be one of God's created messengers.

Thank you Linda

, I never looked at that fact. Thank you for making me smarter. I appreciate your statement.

All occurrences of malak YHWH are the same in Hebrew so any capitols in the KJ are not relevant.

Yes the only occurrences of "Angel of the Lord" ("Lord" not in caps) in the KJV occur in the NT which the KJV translates from Greek and which never distinguished "Lord" from "LORD"

This is really good emissary participation!
To throw a stone into the bush. ...
Angels do not have free will.
Did / Does Yeshua had / have free will?
More...
My servant can be my messenger but never be my son.
Only my son can be both.

My Brothers in Messiah,

It is distinguished in the NT and the OT. In the OT the term "The Angel of YHWH" is used. In the NT the term "an angel of YHWH" is used. There are a couple of "an angel of YHWH" used in the OT.

When Yahushua came to humanity there was a change from "The Angel of YHWH" to "An Angel of YHWH".So where did "The Angel of YHWH" go?

Used the Septuagint and the KJV+

Anyone (a regular human) who received a message from YHWH (as through the high priest, for example) and who then shares that message with others can be said to be a messenger ( a malak) of YHWH.  Malachi, the prophet would be an example of such a malak.  But that does not make him the malak YHWH who Moses encountered at the burning bush.  There are several examples of malak (messengers) in the Old Testament who were merely human and who carried merely human messages.  But the malak YHWH under discussion here was Yahweh himself.

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