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The phrase "Angel of the Lord" appears several times in Scripture.

Is the "Angel of the Lord" a generic term for an angel?

Is the "Angel of the Lord" the Messiah"?

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1/3 of God's angels chose to rebel against Him (2 Peter 2:4) Angels have free will; but they there was no plan of redemption for them.

Pieter Jooste said:
This is really good emissary participation!
To throw a stone into the bush. ...
Angels do not have free will.
Did / Does Yeshua had / have free will?
So the only determiner would be the reaction of the angel/Angel to worship behavior on the part of the human?

Lloyd Brumbaugh said:

All occurrences of malak YHWH are the same in Hebrew so any capitols in the KJ are not relevant.

Dear Brother,

I still believe it was Yahushua who visited man. The reason I again say this is that no one has seen the father.  Theses verses all show this to be true.Yahushua was the intercessor from the beginning of man. He is the one we read about most in the Tanakh. Keep responding because I am enjoying the study as i am revisiting my files on this subject. 

Shavua-Tov

John 1:18 –“No one has ever seen Elohim.[1] The only brought-forth Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He did declare.[2]

John 5:37 - “And the Father who sent Me, He bore witness of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.[3].

John 6:46 – “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from Elohim – He has seen the Father.

1 John 4:12 –“No one has seen Elohim at any time. If we love one another, Elohim does stay in us, and His love has been perfected in us.



[1] See 5:37, 6:46, 1 John 4:12

[2] The pre-existent Son declared, and was the One who appeared to men.

[3] Footnote: 1See 1:18

Is Yahushua a created being? I have been thinking on this. I read your response that you said YHWH "possessed" Yahushua. Looking at the word possessed in Proverbs 8:22 i found something amazing.

The KJV 

Pro 8:22 YHWH possessed (H7069) me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

H7069 -  A primitive root; to erect, that is, create; by extension to procure

The Septuagint

Pro 8:22 - YHWH  G2962 created G2936 me G1473 the head G746 of his ways G3598 G1473 for G1519 his works.G2041 G1473

G2936 - Probably akin to G2932 (through the idea of the proprietorship of the manufacturer); to fabricate, that is, found (form originally): - create, Creator, make.

Also looking at the discussion i agree that angel is not the right word to use in scripture. I like messenger better. If Yahushua is created, then he is the "Greatest Messenger" of all.

Exo 23:20-21 (KJV)

[20] Behold, I send an Angel () before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
[21] Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

The Septuagint

Exo 23:20-21

[20] And behold, I send my messenger G32  before your face, that  he may guard  you in  the way, that he may bring  you  into the land which I prepared for you. 
[21] Take heed to yourself, and hearken to him, and do not resist his persuasion, for he should not avoid you, for my name G3686 G1473 is G1510.2.3 upon G1909 him! G1473

Think about this. PS I trust the Suptuagint over the KJV because the Rabbis who preserved YHWH's word wrote them. I am finding that the study of the KJV with the Suptuagint is more fulfilling.

Have a great day

the "common and garden" angels cannot rebel as they only respond to the word of YHWH.

It was 1/3 of the Seraphim that rebelled.

The next question is what type of angel is MichaEl ... is he also a Seraphim or just an ordinary angel.

The answer to my rhetorical question is:  Yes, Yeshua had a choice to be sacrificed or not. If he was "just an angel of the "LORD", He would have just accepted His fate without having to exercise His will. This made His actions so much more profound.

Interesting. What is your provenance for common/garden angels and seraphim, please.

Pieter Jooste said:

the "common and garden" angels cannot rebel as they only respond to the word of YHWH.

It was 1/3 of the Seraphim that rebelled.

The next question is what type of angel is MichaEl ... is he also a Seraphim or just an ordinary angel.

The answer to my rhetorical question is:  Yes, Yeshua had a choice to be sacrificed or not. If he was "just an angel of the "LORD", He would have just accepted His fate without having to exercise His will. This made His actions so much more profound.

C Mika'el, I appreciate your comments as well. I'm learning how many questions I didn't even know I had. Lots of information to sort through.

C Mika'el Johnson said:

Thank you Linda

, I never looked at that fact. Thank you for making me smarter. I appreciate your statement.

According to the Mystical books, the Middle Pillar of the G-dhead...the first created being in the Bereshit is called Yehoshua. He was never called Michael.

Dear Linda,

 

First: Please do not believe anything I say, I am but a student and a novice.

 

Second: For any understanding of the GODHEAD you need to be “in the Spirit”. As Yeshua is part of the GODHEAD, all discussions of and about Him and His position come as revelation and not from research.

 

But research is interesting and does help and indicate the extend of collective human knowledge.

 

My provenance is simply internet browsing … Wikipedia gives an interesting account of the different “angelic” beings from divergent religious backgrounds. It is also worth looking at what ancient Arabic (Muslim and pre-Muslim) perceptions are. They are a very ancient people in a general constant location, relatively isolated and free from external influences.  

 

Then there are the Biblical references to Malakim, Cherubim, Ophenim and Seraphim, and others. Some of these terms may refer to beings but may also be titles. Such as HaSatan who may be a specific leader of and an expelled Seraphim or a position such as a tester / inspector of creation which can be transferred from being to being. In the Heavens all operates according to the Father’s will. But the roll of the Seraphim who express the glory of the Father has to come from beings with free will (they have to decide out of their own choice to shout “Glory… glory …glory”) otherwise it would be forced and by implication false / hypocrisy.

 

Yeshua refers to Himself as less than the Father. But He may manifest as Michael; Melchizedek; Metatron; the image of the Father; a hand writing on a wall or a stone tablet; a rock in a desert spurting water; a voice; a whisper; etc. In fact He can be anything He chooses. By coming to earth as the Messiah Ben Ephraim proclaiming the Kingdom offer he was indeed the Messenger of the Father. Whether the name Michael can be exclusively attached to Yeshua’s role as messenger may be a bit too simplistic. In Spirit the Son is the Father, but the Father is more than the Son; Michael is Yeshua, but Yeshua is more than Michael; I should also aim to be Yeshua, but Yeshua will always be more than I can ever be.

 

Hope this makes some sense and stimulate prayer for revelation. 

The Middle Pillar was not "created" but emanated, as he was eternally existent within Ayn Sof (The Infinite One) before he was brought forth.

Then why does the Zohar teach differently?

That is what the Zohar teaches.

Remember the four worlds?  Emanation precedes "creation".

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