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Alternate Calendar Debate

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Alternate Calendar Debate

Alternate Calendars may only be debated in this group. If you want to debate Solar Calendar, Full Moon is New Moon, Lunar Sabbath, Morning to Morning Days or Karaite Calendar you may do so here only.

Members: 53
Latest Activity: May 25

Discussion Forum

The Timing of Pesakh According to the Nazarene (Netzarim) System

Started by Menachem Kaplan. Last reply by James Trimm May 25. 4 Replies

The Timing of Pesakh According to the Nazarene (Netzarim) Systemhttp://godkind.org/passover.htmlContinue

Full Moon on the 15th?

Started by will brinson: ferguson. Last reply by Christopher Hernandez May 30, 2016. 2 Replies

Can anyone share with me just where the idea that the FULL MOON has to be on the 15th of the month.Are there Scriptures that say this, or at least allude to it, or perhaps somewhere within the…Continue

Tags: moon, full

New Moon: Astronomical or Visible Crescent?

Started by Christopher Hernandez May 30, 2016. 0 Replies

Psalm 81:4 (or 81:3, depending on version)ד  תִּקְעוּ בַחֹדֶשׁ שׁוֹפָר;    בַּכֵּסֶה, לְיוֹם חַגֵּנוּ.  4The word "keseh, or kasah"(כֵּסֶה) means "cover, covered" or "hide, hidden". I found the word…Continue

Tags: Trumpets, first, sliver, Yom, Teruah

Evening to Evening Day

Started by James Trimm. Last reply by Mikha El Oct 12, 2014. 9 Replies

YOM in Hebrew can mean "day" in the sense of a 24 hour day, or day in the sense of "daytime".MACHAR can refer either to the next 24 hour day, or the next daylight.Eveneing to Evening reckoning is…Continue

Solar and Lunar Reconciled

Started by James Trimm. Last reply by Malaachi Yarden Jul 28, 2013. 4 Replies

My thinking is that before the fall of the angel of Gen. 6 the solaryear was 360 days with exactly 12 lunar months (30 days) that fit withperfect timing within the 360 day solar year.Stars are…Continue

Fall of the Lunar Sabbath

Started by James Trimm. Last reply by James Trimm May 25, 2013. 15 Replies

The so-called floating "Lunar Sabbath" is a recent invention. Thereis no evidence that anyone ever followed it until recent times. To thecontrary the historical evidence PROVES that the ancient…Continue

Has Time Been Lost - Herbert W. Armstrong

Started by James Trimm. Last reply by Merv Mustchin Nov 28, 2012. 7 Replies

  HAS TIME BEEN LOST?  By Herbert W. ArmstrongCopyright 1952, 1968, 1970, 1972 Is it possible to know? YES!--you can be sure--you can prove--which day of the week today, is the same seventh day God…Continue

The Three Sixty Four day year

Started by Phil Smith. Last reply by Carl Ronnander Nov 11, 2012. 10 Replies

 I am new here but I would like discuss the 364 day calendar. On the surface it seems impractical as a calendar, but maybe not as crazy as it first appears?Is discussing this topic OK?  Continue

The Chronology of the Passover and Yeshua’s Last Week on Earth 1

Started by James Trimm. Last reply by 3rxqash0xupnt Dec 18, 2011. 4 Replies

The Chronology of the Passover and Yeshua’s Last Week on Earth Part One Yeshua’s Last Week By Anonymous Seven Days of Eight Days? In Rabbinic Judaism today the terms Passover and “Feast of…Continue

When Were the True Dates of the Crucifixion and Resurrection?

Started by Menachem Kaplan. Last reply by John Apr 15, 2011. 4 Replies

When Were the True Dates of the Crucifixion and Resurrection?Many Sabbath-Keeping groups place the crucifixion of Messiah on a Wednesday and have the resurrection take place on Saturday of 31 C.E.or…Continue

Comment Wall

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 7, 2012 at 5:54am

Hey Merv,

in 1st Khawnoke[a.k.a.-Enoch] chapter 78 it speaks of the moon starting the month with its slither of light and ending the month when it turns dark.

{1st Khawnoke 78:2}

 And the moon has four names: the first name is Ishon,216 the second
L’banah,217 the third L’banah Kesheh,218 and the fourth Yarech.219

Footnotes:

216 The Ethiopic has “Asonya” but this is probably a corruption of Hebrew ’ı̂yshôn [Strong’s 380] “deepest blackness" and may have passed through an Aramaic version with an emphatic Aramaic ending ishonya.

217 The Ethiopic has “Ebla” which is probably a corruption of lebânâh [Strong’s 3842]  "moon as white"
218 The Ethiopic has “Benase” which is probably a corruption of kâśâh [Strong’s 3780] “full (literally “fat”) moon”.
219 The Ethiopic reads “Erae” but this is probably a corruption of Hebrew yârêach [Strong’s 3394] “moon”.

So we see that the moon has more than just the one name "Yareach". But I also believe as you do that "Kodesh" = "month", hence the "Rosh Khodesh" means " new month". 

{1st Khawnoke 78:6}

And when the moon rises one-fourteenth part shines in the heaven to appear: and its light becomes fuller day by day until the fourteenth day
and then she accomplishes her light.

Ask yourself -"fourteenth days of what?" And - "what does 'accomplish her light' mean in accordance to the fourteenth day?" This is speaking of the 14th day of the month is it not?

 

{1st Khawnoke 78:8} 

And in her waning (the moon) decreases on the first day to fourteen parts of her light, ... ... ... , and all her remaining light disappears wholly on the fifteenth.

 

Again - "the Fifteenth day" of what? This is speaking of the closing of the second half of the month, yeah/no?

 

{1st Khawnoke 78:11-12} 

During all the period during which the moon is growing in her light, she is transferring it to herself when opposite to the sun during fourteen days her light is accomplished in the heaven, and when she is illumined throughout, her light is accomplished full in the heaven. And on the first day she is called the new moon, for on that day the light rises upon her.

What, did Khawnoke just call the first visual slither of the moon  a "New Moon" which is at the beginning of the month? It sures seems to read that way.

{1st Khawnoke 78:14-15} 
On the side whence the light of the moon comes forth, there again she wanes till all the light vanishes and all the days of the month are at an end, and her circumference is empty, void of light. And three months she makes of thirty days, and at her time she makes three months of twenty- nine days each

Sounds as if the light of the moon determines the days of the month not the sun, especially the part about when the moon is void of light being the end of THE MONTH.

{1st Khawnoke 78:16} 

And in the time of her going out she appears for three months (of) thirty days each, and for three months she appears (of) twenty-nine each.

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 7, 2012 at 5:55am

Again it sure sound like Khawnoke is saying that the moons entire light-cycle happens within each and every month. 

 

Now Merv, this is what Khawnoke said, not some men's reasoning that have forgotten YHWH's Feast Days. 

 

As I said before one needs to take into account everything Khawnoke said about the calendar (1st Khawnoke Chapters 72-78) before drawing a conclusions. 

 

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 10, 2012 at 8:47pm

Merv,

the following is from the writings of Philo (1st Century pious Yehudeem).

 

The book of Philo The Special Laws II Section xxvI (the Third Festival) #141 ( http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text/philo/book28.html )

XI. (41) Now there are ten festivals in number, as the law sets them down.

The first is that which any one will perhaps be astonished to hear called a festival. This festival is every day.

The second festival is the seventh day, which the Hebrews in their native language call the sabbath.

The third is that which comes after the conjunction, which happens on the day of the new moon in each month.

The fourth is that of the passover which is called the passover.

The fifth is the first fruits of the corn--the sacred sheaf.

The sixth is the feast of unleavened bread, after which that festival is celebrated, which is really

The seventh day of seventh days.

The eighth is the festival of the sacred moon, or the feast of trumpets.

The ninth is the fast.

The tenth is the feast of tabernacles, which is the last of all the annual festivals, ending so as to make the perfect number of ten. We must now begin with the first festival.

... ... ... 

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 10, 2012 at 8:50pm

(Continued from above) ... ... ...

THE THIRD FESTIVAL

XXVI. (140) Following the order which we have adopted, we proceed to speak of the third festival, that of the new moonFirst of all, because it is the beginning of the month, and the beginning, whether of number or of time, is honourable. Secondly, because at this time there is nothing in the whole of heaven destitute of light. (141) Thirdly, because at that period the more powerful and important body gives a portion of necessary assistance to the less important and weaker body; for, at the time of the new moon, the sun begins to illuminate the moon with a light which is visible to the outward senses, and then she displays her own beauty to the beholders. And this is, as it seems, an evident lesson of kindness and humanity to men, to teach them that they should never grudge to impart their own good things to others, but, imitating the heavenly bodies, should drive envy away and banish it from the Soul.{17}{sections 142-144 were omitted in Yonge's translation because the edition on which Yonge based his translation, Mangey, lacked this material. These lines have been newly translated for this volume.} (142) The fourth reason is that of all the bodies in the heaven, the moon traverses the zodiac in the least appointed time: it accomplishes its orbit in a monthly interval. For this reason the law has honored the end of its orbit, the point when the moon has finished at the beginning point from which it began to travel, by having called that day a feast so that it might again teach us an excellent lesson that in the affairs of life we should make the ends harmonious with the beginnings. This will happen if we hold the reins on our first impulses with the power of reason and do not permit them to refuse the reins and to run free like animals without anyone in charge of the herd. (143) With regard to the benefits which the moon provides to all on earth, why is it necessary to run through and detail them? Their proofs are obvious. Or isn't it by its waxings that rivers and springs overflow, and again by its wanings that they diminish; that seas sometimes retreat and are drawn down through their ebb and flow, and at other times suddenly run full through the tide; that the air experiences all sorts of shifts in the form of clear weather, cloudy weather, and other changes? Don't the fruits of cultivated crops and trees grow and come to maturity through the orbits of the moon which nurses and ripens each of the growing crops through dewladen and very gentle breezes? (144) But this is not the appropriate occasion, as I said, to speak at length about the praise of the moon by running through and enumerating the benefits which it provides to animals and to all on the earth. For these reasons and others similar to them, the new moon has been honored and taken its place among the feasts.

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 10, 2012 at 8:50pm

Philo was  living upon this earth during the same time The Anointed One was living upon this Earth. Josephus was also a 1st Century Yehudeem that held Philo in high regards (see following quote) -

Josephus considered him [Philo] prominent in every way and skilled in philosophy." (An Introduction to Early Judaism, p. 138) 

As I said these men lived during the same time as The Anointed One walked this earth and they all three kept the same days as Shabbawths and  Festivals, so if they went by a corrupted calendar then so did The Anointed One (which would have disqualified Him as our Savior!!! 

 

Josephus Flavius wrote The War Of The Yehudeem [Jews] which is a part of the canon of the PeshittA Renewed Testament. If you read his Book you will find that Josephus was called of YHWH to help facilitate the surrender of the Yehudeem, whereby making him a Prophet of YHWH. This is why his Book War Of The Yehudeem [Jews] was canonised [The Catholic Church which wanted to depart from Yehudeem Customs refused this Book as Scripture so that they could further there sun worshiping system]!!!   

 

This makes for three highly respected,  1st Century Yehudeem, witnesses (Khawnoke; Philo; and The Anointed One [as His actions speak louder that the other two's words, and He kept the same timing as these other two men did]) that the months starts at the sighting of the New Moon slithers!!! This is not just man's reasoning but actual testaments by YHWH's faithful people as to when the months start within His Appointed Times.

 

The so-called Lunar Shabbawth and the Solar only Khawnoke [Enoch] Calendars are the perverted ones!!!

 

Diligently make every effort to study, thine own-self in order to assist the Eloheem, a teacher that need not to be ashamed, righteously preaching The Word / The Truth. {2nd Timo-Theos [Timothy] 2:15}

 

When a man or woman is honestly mistaken and hears the truth, they will either quit being mistaken, or they will cease to be honest.

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 11, 2012 at 5:52am

Owe Merv,

the Book of Khawnoke is Scripture and therefore the very Words Of YHWH. And Josephus Flavius is a prophet of YHWH and he spoke highly of Philo, whereby Philo's words are attested to by a man of YHWH. 

And yes the so-called Enoch calendar uses part of YHWH's Word but that is how Sawtawn puts forth his lies, with half truths. The so-called Enoch Solar Calendar is based on just that - half truths - and therefore a whole lie!!!

Merv it is not I (at least not this time around) that is speaking out of line with YHWH's Word. But as you said YHWH gives us all a choice to either keep His Appointed Times or to choose other times and laws.

As for what YHWH is saying at this time He changes not. His Word stands throughout the ages. Not one yohd [jot] nor one diacritical-apex [tittle] will pass from the Torah!!!

Anytime anyone comes teaching contrary to the Torah they are seeking to destroy the Torah. Yehoshuah came to fulfill the Torah not to destroy It. The "Enoch Solar Calendar" perverts the truth whereby destroying the Torah -period!!! 

Nothing personal, just saying. 

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 12, 2012 at 9:47pm

Merv, I am in a relationship with the Heavenly Father and His only begotten Son. It just so happens that the relationship I want to have with Them must line up with the Word.

Merv, it is religion that will never line up with the Word.

Yes, Merv, the Scriptures are to be interpreted, but in a way that lines up with other Scripture verses, not contrary to the whole of Torah.

By the way Merv, what you see is not religion, but one believer trying to share, with another brother in The Anointed One, "Scripture(s)".

2Ti_3:16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of Ailoah, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

2 Kayf [2Peter] 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after The Anointed One.

1Th_5:21  Prove all things; hold fast that which is good

THERE ARE TWO APPROACHES IN UNDERSTANDING SCRIPTURE
FIRST: One goes to the Writings with an open, unbiased attitude,
free of denominational slants or teachings, or previous impressions.
This is called Exegesis (direct analysis or interpretation of Scripture).
Allowing the Word to directly speak to form a solid foundation through
personal study. Listening to other men teach us what Scripture says
is fine also, as long as we test everything we hear, being careful how
we listen, as the assembly at Berea did (see: Acts 17:10,11).
SECOND: (the wrong approach) -- One goes to the Writings to prove
something they already believe, finding sentences which hint at the
idea. This is called Eisegesis (analyzing from one's own
preconceived ideas). In these cases the text is not directly
describing or teaching the concept they are trying to prove, but rather
the words are extracted and hunted-down, to "prove" what they
believe. This is how men "twist" or "spin" the Words of Scripture,
especially the letters of Shawool [Saul ] (a.k.a. - Powlos [ Paul ]):
". . . as also our beloved brother Powlos wrote to you, according
to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in
them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to
understand, which those who are untaught and unstable TWIST
(spin) to their own destruction, as they do also the other
Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch;
lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away
with the delusion of the lawless." - {2 Kayf [Peter] 3:15-17}

{Ephesians 5:11}
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather EXPOSE them.

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 12, 2012 at 9:47pm

continued ...

{2 Timotheos 4:1-5}

In the sight of Ailoheem and the Master Yahu-Shuah The Anointed One, who shall judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His reign, I earnestly charge you: Proclaim the Word! Be urgent in season, out of season. Reprove[1], warn, appeal, with all patience and teaching. [Footnote: [1] Or: confute, or prove them wrong.] For there shall be a time when they shall not bear sound teaching, but according to their own desires, they shall heap up for themselves teachers tickling the ear[1], [Footnote: [1] Isa. 30:10, Jer. 5:31, Rom. 16:18.] and they shall indeed turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to myths. But you be sober in all matters, suffer hardships, do the work of an evangelist, accomplish your service completely.

Remember that there are two spiritual relationships we can have. One with the Heavenly Father of Truth and the other with the adversarial spirit of the Dung-Beetle whom is the father of all lies. 

So we must question the spirits and make sure the message they bring lines up with the Word!!! And if not we are to rebuke the messenger (i.e. -spirit).

When a man or woman is honestly mistaken and hears the truth,
they will either quit being mistaken, or they will cease to be honest.

1Ti_4:1  Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter-times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits, and doctrines of demons; 

Acts 17:11 These [Bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonica,
in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Merv, I say nothing towards you as a personal attack. This is not a war against flesh but rather spiritual warfare! I am simply trying to help my Adon defeat the Dug-Beetle by sharing knowledge - as YHWH's people are destroyed by lack thereof (Hoshayah [Hosea] 4:6).

Comment by will brinson: ferguson on November 12, 2012 at 9:55pm

Merv, I have been in relationship with YHWH and His only Begotten Son for 20 years now, yet not all of which did I have a total truthful knowledge thereof. As I said before I fell not only for the Lunar Shabbawth theory but then I took up the Enoch Solar only calendar as well. At least until my studies lead me past my ignorance on the Appointed Days of YHWH. It took years of study before I come to see the truth in this matter. So I understand where you are at this moment, and would but encourage you to continue to study, awmain.

Comment by Florin C Bodin on May 25, 2013 at 4:13pm

Maybe before the flood the Lunar Shabbath was every month in a Saturday, but from Leviticus 23 we see that only Aviv, wich is commanded to be the first moon or month of the year, have the full moon day falling before the Shabbath.

In Golspels we can see that the full moon day was the one when in the morning Yeshua was sold, same day of full moon when in 15 Nissan the children of Israel have come out from Egypt.

Before this week, we have 10 Aviv, the day when the lamb is taken in homes, when Yeshua was annoited propheticy one week before his resurection.

Was this in 10 or 11 Aviv if was in the evening when the sun goes down ?

Note that Aviv that was set by human observation of the moon, is not every year same with Nisan, since the month before in the time of Daniel hade 30 days like every month, and there are caldeean documents with taxes colected in 30 Nisan that can show this. 

Also is important if the weath has heads on stem, is polenised, or already have grains in heads for as to determine watever is Aviv or is Adar-bet. We dont do two years of human observations and we end up keeping the First Fruit day (that is after this Shabbath ends) two months later.

Now acording to the hebrew calendar the harvest should be already rip and the 10% of the harvest lifted to Jerusalem in the day after 7 full Sabbuots (Saturdays or Weeks of Harvest) are ended.

Here in Romania I can say there is grain that I could take first time from heard one day before the Shabbath that ends and then Shavuot or Pentecost day beggins. There was no solid grain of weath and what was left after this become ina  week dry is very pore, so the Harvest here could beggin only in some fields that are in valey regions.

Note also that the year now was over 365 days, and not 360 days + 4 days for the beggining of the 4 seasons of the year. Maybe this whould be solved only on the New Earth, so untill then we will not have every month a Lunar Shabbath. 

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